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Why does that follow though? Why not just say: in the absence of labor, people would still like to make and do nice things for people to consume. Like, you know

Why does that follow though? Why not just say: in the absence of labor, people would still like to make and do nice things for people to consume. Like, you know, enjoying life and sharing with others. A "job" is not a spontaneous effect of a desire, its not a natural thing, but simply a formalization step in capitalism for the sake of exchanging labor for pay. "Post-work" generally doesn't mean "nobody can work anymore," its more "nobody needs to work anymore." People will always "work" insofar as that just means to live, learn, and share fruits of our skill and creativity.

christophilus 3y ago
Every economic system we’ve ever observed had jobs. Communism, socialism, feudalism, tribalism… Human civilization has and probably will always have roles which are essentially responsibilities for ensuring some good or service is consistently available to the community. That’s a job in my book, regardless of the economic system.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Doesn't even need to be a formal economic system. I can pretty much guarantee that a random paleolithic tribe had some people who were better hunters, people who gathered edibles, leaders, etc.
- pixl97 3y ago
  What is interesting in these threads is that we as humans cannot seem to even imagine a post work society, much less how we'd ever accomplish one.
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
> A "job" is not a spontaneous effect of a desire, its not a natural thing, but simply a formalization step in capitalism for the sake of exchanging labor for pay. In any system including moderate technological complexity (e.g. roads, sewage disposal systems) there will be tasks that are useful, or even necessary, for a community but that nevertheless have low intrinsic rewards. Providing extrinsic rewards (e.g. money) in exchange for doing these tasks has nothing to do with capitalism. What may have something to do with capitalism is whether or not people need to exchange their labor for goods or money in order to remain alive. In a system where this is no longer necessary, finding the right kinds of rewards and/or motivational culture to get people to do unpleasant tasks that still need to be done will be a challenge, I suspect.

christophilus 3y ago

Every economic system we’ve ever observed had jobs. Communism, socialism, feudalism, tribalism… Human civilization has and probably will always have roles which are essentially responsibilities for ensuring some good or service is consistently available to the community. That’s a job in my book, regardless of the economic system.

ghaff 3y ago
Doesn't even need to be a formal economic system. I can pretty much guarantee that a random paleolithic tribe had some people who were better hunters, people who gathered edibles, leaders, etc.
pixl97 3y ago
What is interesting in these threads is that we as humans cannot seem to even imagine a post work society, much less how we'd ever accomplish one.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

> A "job" is not a spontaneous effect of a desire, its not a natural thing, but simply a formalization step in capitalism for the sake of exchanging labor for pay. In any system including moderate technological complexity (e.g. roads, sewage disposal systems) there will be tasks that are useful, or even necessary, for a community but that nevertheless have low intrinsic rewards. Providing extrinsic rewards (e.g. money) in exchange for doing these tasks has nothing to do with capitalism. What may have something to do with capitalism is whether or not people need to exchange their labor for goods or money in order to remain alive. In a system where this is no longer necessary, finding the right kinds of rewards and/or motivational culture to get people to do unpleasant tasks that still need to be done will be a challenge, I suspect.