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Where are we at on Podman these days? If I recall, Podman really caught fire with this community after Docker started trying to charge more people for software

Where are we at on Podman these days? If I recall, Podman really caught fire with this community after Docker started trying to charge more people for software. But then Red Hat (i.e. Podman's sponsor) started trying to charge more people for software too, and also became a pariah with this community. It's hard to keep up.

mogwire 3y ago
> But then Red Hat (i.e. Podman's sponsor) started trying to charge more people for software too Podman is free as is Podman Desktop. Red Hat didn’t raise its prices. CentOS Streams and Fedora is still free. Oh you mean they made it difficult for Rocky to build the SRPMs. Sorry sorry. Hard to keep up with the FUD.
- andreashaerter 3y ago
  Exactly. Red Hat is ending some things others never even considered to offer. Yet, people stand in line with... Oracle, WTF. FUD sadly works. Especially while RH still making things accessible for people without money and testers, e.g. https://developers.redhat.com/articles/faqs-no-cost-red-hat-enterprise-linux https://developers.redhat.com/articles/faqs-no-cost-red-hat-..., includes RHEL, Software Collections and Application Streams, Developer Toolset and Compilers, Red Hat Insights access (sic!).
paravz 3y ago
podman and podman-compose became mainstream and replaced docker for me in "server" scenarios on rhel8/rhel9, fedora and derivatives. Glad to see progress on the desktop!
Matl 3y ago
Podman is not the sole product of the people behind it, so they're less motivated to go down the Docker hole, imo.
IshKebab 3y ago
I used instead of Docker for a while because it came by default on RHEL (I'm using 8). It has very impressive compatibility with Docker. For 99% of use cases you will not even know you are using Podman. The one case that forced me to uninstall it and use Docker was running `gitlab-runner`'s integration tests which do some funny things with Vagrant and VMWare, and Podman didn't like it. But overall I am very impressed with the compatibility. There aren't really any advantages to using it for individual users. Being rootless is a huge upside on the server though. At my previous company I accidentally deleted all the containers running on a server because I naively assumed that Docker followed the normal permission model and would only let me delete my containers. Imagine my surprise when I learned that Docker basically runs as root and all users that have access to Docker have root access! Of course I only made that mistake once, but still... Crazy design.
- heresie-dabord 3y ago
  > There aren't really any advantages to using it for individual users. Cheers, but his is not true. Running a container without root privilege is a security advantage for users who run containers that (inevitably) contain vulnerabilities.
  - znpy 3y ago
    This is so true… also different users on the same machine can have their own podman daemon mimicking their own private docker daemon. In some cases it can be useful to run different containers as different users.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    You have sudo though presumably, so there's not much difference between giving it access to your account and directly giving it root.
  - bildiba 3y ago
    Even more so if said containers contain Trojans. Bit more secure than running directly, but if the container is broken out of, attacker directly gets root.
qudat 3y ago
If you need to use buildx it is a slog to get right. The split between root and rootless is also wrought with forking guides and very confusing to triage. For example, rootless needs more care with capabilities.
sirsinsalot 3y ago
I managed to build and run a Docker compose setup that had been used exclusively with Docker for years without issue. The problem came when trying to get other systems to talk to Podman in place of Docker. It just ... didn't work.

mogwire 3y ago

> But then Red Hat (i.e. Podman's sponsor) started trying to charge more people for software too Podman is free as is Podman Desktop. Red Hat didn’t raise its prices. CentOS Streams and Fedora is still free. Oh you mean they made it difficult for Rocky to build the SRPMs. Sorry sorry. Hard to keep up with the FUD.

andreashaerter 3y ago
Exactly. Red Hat is ending some things others never even considered to offer. Yet, people stand in line with... Oracle, WTF. FUD sadly works. Especially while RH still making things accessible for people without money and testers, e.g. https://developers.redhat.com/articles/faqs-no-cost-red-hat-enterprise-linux https://developers.redhat.com/articles/faqs-no-cost-red-hat-..., includes RHEL, Software Collections and Application Streams, Developer Toolset and Compilers, Red Hat Insights access (sic!).

paravz 3y ago

podman and podman-compose became mainstream and replaced docker for me in "server" scenarios on rhel8/rhel9, fedora and derivatives. Glad to see progress on the desktop!

Matl 3y ago

Podman is not the sole product of the people behind it, so they're less motivated to go down the Docker hole, imo.

IshKebab 3y ago

I used instead of Docker for a while because it came by default on RHEL (I'm using 8). It has very impressive compatibility with Docker. For 99% of use cases you will not even know you are using Podman. The one case that forced me to uninstall it and use Docker was running `gitlab-runner`'s integration tests which do some funny things with Vagrant and VMWare, and Podman didn't like it. But overall I am very impressed with the compatibility. There aren't really any advantages to using it for individual users. Being rootless is a huge upside on the server though. At my previous company I accidentally deleted all the containers running on a server because I naively assumed that Docker followed the normal permission model and would only let me delete my containers. Imagine my surprise when I learned that Docker basically runs as root and all users that have access to Docker have root access! Of course I only made that mistake once, but still... Crazy design.

heresie-dabord 3y ago
> There aren't really any advantages to using it for individual users. Cheers, but his is not true. Running a container without root privilege is a security advantage for users who run containers that (inevitably) contain vulnerabilities.
- znpy 3y ago
  This is so true… also different users on the same machine can have their own podman daemon mimicking their own private docker daemon. In some cases it can be useful to run different containers as different users.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  You have sudo though presumably, so there's not much difference between giving it access to your account and directly giving it root.
- bildiba 3y ago
  Even more so if said containers contain Trojans. Bit more secure than running directly, but if the container is broken out of, attacker directly gets root.

qudat 3y ago

If you need to use buildx it is a slog to get right. The split between root and rootless is also wrought with forking guides and very confusing to triage. For example, rootless needs more care with capabilities.

sirsinsalot 3y ago

I managed to build and run a Docker compose setup that had been used exclusively with Docker for years without issue. The problem came when trying to get other systems to talk to Podman in place of Docker. It just ... didn't work.