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Minimum wage is not a very useful policy, especially in a system with relatively low workforce participation. Firstly, minimum wage is politically unpopular in

Minimum wage is not a very useful policy, especially in a system with relatively low workforce participation. Firstly, minimum wage is politically unpopular in most areas. Keep in mind the median voter is older or retired and cares more about expenses than income. So even modest cost of living increases can have huge political repercussions. Secondly, minimum wages are very inefficient as a poverty reduction policy. For every dollar you impose on businesses, a % is going to be eaten by inflation, a % is going to into reduced labor demand, and a % is going to families well above the poverty line (second or third household earners). This is why you see lots of Western countries not even bother with them. (Minimum wage as a policy to induce immigration - that's another story).

enragedcacti 3y ago
> Firstly, minimum wage is politically unpopular in most areas. In the US raising the minimum wage is wildly popular, with 89% wanting to raise it some amount and 62% supporting $15/hr. > For every dollar you impose on businesses, a % is going to be eaten by inflation, a % is going to into reduced labor demand, and a % is going to families well above the poverty line (second or third household earners). Only if you assume a perfectly efficient labor market, which is often far from how things play out in studies regarding the minimum wage. > This is why you see lots of Western countries not even bother with them. There are only a handful of western countries without a minimum wage and most of them either have very strong collective bargaining, a strong social safety net with some form of guaranteed minimum income, or both. I think those are reasonable policies but they aren't what opponents of the minimum wage are generally advocating for. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-americans-support-a-15-federal-minimum-wage/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-amer...
cristiancavalli 3y ago
> Firstly, minimum wage is politically unpopular in most areas. You’re so wrong it’s actually astounding: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-americans-support-a-15-federal-minimum-wage/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-amer... https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/5/24/725-isnt-cutting-it-in-this-economy-voters-support-raising-the-minimum-wage-to-20-per-hour https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/5/24/725-isnt-cutt... https://www.graydc.com/2023/04/21/study-finds-that-23-americans-support-raising-federal-minimum-wage/ https://www.graydc.com/2023/04/21/study-finds-that-23-americ... > This is why you see lots of Western countries not even bother with them. Again you’re just so wrong: most of Europe has a much better adjusted minimum wage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_... > Secondly, minimum wages are very inefficient as a poverty reduction policy. For every dollar you impose on businesses, a % is going to be eaten by inflation, a % is going to into reduced labor demand, and a % is going to families well above the poverty line (second or third household earners). Just wrong again: https://www.rwjf.org/en/insights/our-research/2022/08/exploring-the-effects-of-a-15-an-hour-federal-minimum-wage-on-poverty-earnings-and-net-family-resources.html https://www.rwjf.org/en/insights/our-research/2022/08/explor... https://www.brookings.edu/articles/higher-regional-minimum-wages-can-lift-half-of-struggling-households-into-economic-self-sufficiency/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/higher-regional-minimum-w... https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/3636046-a-15-minimum-wage-could-lift-7-6-million-americans-out-of-poverty/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/3636046... Even the CBO generally disagrees with your falsehoods: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681 Why spread misinformation?
- legitster 3y ago
  The CBO data actually highlights this. These are all miniscule improvements for the big outlay of costs. You can see this in the huge predicted decline in Real Family Income (most of that is only felt by people in middle class or above, but still, if this is just a redistribution mechanism there are more efficient ways to do that).
  - cristiancavalli 3y ago
    Actually it doesn’t — the decline in real income is not huge even on the high end and actual site comments on its findings: “ How would increasing the minimum wage affect the number of people in poverty? By boosting the income of low-wage workers with jobs, a higher minimum wage would lift some families’ income above the poverty threshold and thereby reduce the number of people in poverty. But low-wage workers who lost employment would see their earnings decrease, and in some cases their family income would fall below the poverty threshold. The first effect would tend to be larger than the second, so the number of people in poverty would generally fall.” Yes there would be job losses but that effect is shown to not be nearly as large as the number of people lifted out of poverty.

enragedcacti 3y ago

> Firstly, minimum wage is politically unpopular in most areas. In the US raising the minimum wage is wildly popular, with 89% wanting to raise it some amount and 62% supporting $15/hr. > For every dollar you impose on businesses, a % is going to be eaten by inflation, a % is going to into reduced labor demand, and a % is going to families well above the poverty line (second or third household earners). Only if you assume a perfectly efficient labor market, which is often far from how things play out in studies regarding the minimum wage. > This is why you see lots of Western countries not even bother with them. There are only a handful of western countries without a minimum wage and most of them either have very strong collective bargaining, a strong social safety net with some form of guaranteed minimum income, or both. I think those are reasonable policies but they aren't what opponents of the minimum wage are generally advocating for. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-americans-support-a-15-federal-minimum-wage/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-amer...

cristiancavalli 3y ago

> Firstly, minimum wage is politically unpopular in most areas. You’re so wrong it’s actually astounding: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-americans-support-a-15-federal-minimum-wage/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/04/22/most-amer... https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/5/24/725-isnt-cutting-it-in-this-economy-voters-support-raising-the-minimum-wage-to-20-per-hour https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/5/24/725-isnt-cutt... https://www.graydc.com/2023/04/21/study-finds-that-23-americans-support-raising-federal-minimum-wage/ https://www.graydc.com/2023/04/21/study-finds-that-23-americ... > This is why you see lots of Western countries not even bother with them. Again you’re just so wrong: most of Europe has a much better adjusted minimum wage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_states_by_minimum_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Union_member_... > Secondly, minimum wages are very inefficient as a poverty reduction policy. For every dollar you impose on businesses, a % is going to be eaten by inflation, a % is going to into reduced labor demand, and a % is going to families well above the poverty line (second or third household earners). Just wrong again: https://www.rwjf.org/en/insights/our-research/2022/08/exploring-the-effects-of-a-15-an-hour-federal-minimum-wage-on-poverty-earnings-and-net-family-resources.html https://www.rwjf.org/en/insights/our-research/2022/08/explor... https://www.brookings.edu/articles/higher-regional-minimum-wages-can-lift-half-of-struggling-households-into-economic-self-sufficiency/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/higher-regional-minimum-w... https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/3636046-a-15-minimum-wage-could-lift-7-6-million-americans-out-of-poverty/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/poverty/3636046... Even the CBO generally disagrees with your falsehoods: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/55681 Why spread misinformation?

legitster 3y ago
The CBO data actually highlights this. These are all miniscule improvements for the big outlay of costs. You can see this in the huge predicted decline in Real Family Income (most of that is only felt by people in middle class or above, but still, if this is just a redistribution mechanism there are more efficient ways to do that).
- cristiancavalli 3y ago
  Actually it doesn’t — the decline in real income is not huge even on the high end and actual site comments on its findings: “ How would increasing the minimum wage affect the number of people in poverty? By boosting the income of low-wage workers with jobs, a higher minimum wage would lift some families’ income above the poverty threshold and thereby reduce the number of people in poverty. But low-wage workers who lost employment would see their earnings decrease, and in some cases their family income would fall below the poverty threshold. The first effect would tend to be larger than the second, so the number of people in poverty would generally fall.” Yes there would be job losses but that effect is shown to not be nearly as large as the number of people lifted out of poverty.