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This is from West Virginia, where a state delegate was arrested and pulled from his house because he was one of the people who stormed the capital to 'help' Tru

This is from West Virginia, where a state delegate was arrested and pulled from his house because he was one of the people who stormed the capital to 'help' Trump: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/former-west-virginia-lawmaker-derrick-evans-sentenced-storming-capitol-rcna34329 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/former-w... West VA is not known for its upstanding political system. I thought VA was better until 2021 when: 1. The governor had a scandal about his yearbook photo showing him (or best friend) in either a KKK hood or blackface 2. The vice-governor who wanted to replace him, immediately had a scandal about being a possible rapist 3. The attorney general, 2nd in line to replace the governor, admitted he wore blackface "as an innocent joke, seriously" So now, I'm of the notion that all east coast politicians are hiding skeletons in their closets.

ryandrake 3y ago
What is with politicians and blackface? How hard is it to find someone to run for office who didn't wear blackface? I remember at my university we even had a student government leader embroiled in a scandal because he wore blackface at a Halloween party. People, stop with the blackface! How is this not obvious?
- whatshisface 3y ago
  The problem is that it was apparently far less obvious 50 years ago... The sheer number of conservatives who have been caught doing it shows it's some kind of ex post facto social norm. For liberals supporting "traditional marriage" is the ex post facto norm but there is much more forgiveness available for people who spoke against gay marriage when Obama was against it. There should probably be some kind of accepted system of forgiveness... but the culture is run by its second most progressive so I only expect it to be available for those who merely failed to be the absolute most progressive. I have a good track record of being the absolute most progressive for what it's worth.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Yea, I get it, there's history and attitudes changing. But, you'd think in 2021, someone thinking about running for public office might take a few minutes, sit down, and run through the checklist. You know, the basics: Did I ever rape anyone? Was I in the KKK? Did I ever wear blackface?
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      That's an, "arson, murder and jaywalking" list if I have ever heard one. :-) And no, I think that when those teenagers were donning their offensive Halloween costumes, they did not think it was going to cause serious offense decades in the future.
      - true_religion 3y ago
        In this case, the governor wasn’t a teenager. He was a 27 year old medical school student when the yearbook photo was taken. To make matters worse, this was the same year his school had its first black student so many white students were using the yearbook as an excuse to protest.
    - csa 3y ago
      > Did I ever rape anyone? Was I in the KKK? Did I ever wear blackface? I think this is a gross oversimplification. Let me modernize the questions for the current era (since the alleged infractions were decades ago): 1. Have I ever touch someone romantically in any way without asking for explicit permission and receiving explicit approval? This is the alleged “standard” these days, although I think that it is only strictly adhered to in one very narrow social group. Overall, “feeling safe” and “respect” seems to be more common than it was many decades ago, but those are still a far cry from explicit consent at every step that some folks use as a “standard”. So if a potential politician cannot answer yes to this, then they leave themselves to being accused of being a rapist and/or sexual predator. 2. Am I in a social group that has a racial mix that does not approximate the local ratios (esp. if white)? California, where I live, is taking stances on equality that focus on outcomes more than opportunities. An unfortunate byproduct of this is that a group that is open to all groups, has members of at least all major groups, and has no policy or pattern of discrimination can still be called racist if their racial ratios are not at a certain level. This basically means that most private clubs are “racist” by this definition. Moose, Rotary, Chambers of Commerce, golf clubs, fraternities and sororities, American Legion branches, Masons (even Prince Hall), etc. are all organizations that have active members now that could be deemed “racist” if “racism” is defined as equality of outcome (as it is currently in CA K-12 education). Any potential policitian who is a member of one of these groups runs the risk of being called a racist. 3. Have I ever worn a costume of a character that is not my race? Moana, Mulan, Tiana, Jasmine, Pocahontas, are some Disney characters that are potentially out of bounds. Luke Cage, Blue Marvel, Storm, Blade, Misty Knight, Black Panther, and Moon Girl are Marvel characters that are potentially out of bounds. Any potential politician has to make sure that they have not worn any of these sorts of costumes, since at some point they may be accused of being racist or engaging in cultural appropriation. Times change, people make mistakes, people grow… we need to allow space for this, especially when a questionable action was not done with malicious intent.
Gibbon1 3y ago
Gov Newsom boinked his campaign managers wife. Gov Schwarzenegger knocked up his housekeeper. Not sure that impacted their day job but gives me some pause.
lazide 3y ago
Only East coast ones? I think a closet full of skeletons is pretty much required for any political candidate!
- samus 3y ago
  Makes it easier for the party or other handlers to keep them in line...
dekhn 3y ago
I'm confused- if a state delegate stormed the capitol (breaking a law), why wouldn't they be arrested and pulled from their house? Or are you saying it's crazy that a person who was elected to be a state delegate would then storm the capitol (that only occurred to me after typing my first question)? Interesting- after being arrested, he resigned his delegate position and took full responsibility, plead guilty, went to jail, and then renounced his admission of guilt. What a quality fellow.
- Amezarak 3y ago
  Entering the Capitol in a protest by itself is not unusual. Protests occur in the Capitol regularly. Without the retrospective view and full knowledge of January 6, “storming the Capitol” appears in a different light, if you concerned about the mens rea of the delegate. It is likely that the vast majority of people that day, the hardliner crazies excepted, had no idea or expectation they’d be facing charges.
  - dekhn 3y ago
    I agree, entering the capitol in a peaceful was is not unusual (we saw an occupation of the rotunda only a few days ago). But from the very first moments the aggresive crowd was gathering outside the capitol, it was pretty clear it was a lawless event (I watched the whole thing realtime on several different news sources). For example if the door to the capitol is locked and people start breaking windows to enter... that moves from "protest" to "storming" pretty much instantly. And he filmed himself with a helmet on, going through the broken-into doors.
    - Amezarak 3y ago
      Oh sure, it definitely devolved into a riot, and I can’t say anything about this guy in particular because I don’t know the details. My point is that just showing up to a protest in or at the Capitol is not really an unusual thing, and most of the people there, probably including the delegate, had no idea there’d be any consequences. Peaceful is sort of a spectrum too - it’s not uncommon for Congressmen and their assistants to get shoved a little, screamed at in their faces, spit on, that sort of thing. Sort of an occupational hazard. Sometimes it makes for great photographs. Certainly what happened that day exceeded the norm, though, which meant a lot of people who showed up with legal motives got wrapped up in something else. Unfortunately it’s become so politicized (in part thanks to very bad reporting the day of) it’s rare to have a sensible discussion about it - thanks for your response - and clearly you know more about this particular situation than I do.
csa 3y ago
> So now, I'm of the notion that all east coast politicians are hiding skeletons in their closets. Serious question… What percentage of people do you think have not done something in their youth (let’s generously call that 22 and under) that would offend one or more groups of people? Of those, what percentage do you think want to become politicians? My guess is that the Venn diagram of these two groups rounds to 0%. People make mistakes, sometimes egregious, though sometimes (often times?) without malice. If we want a wider pool to select our public figures from, we need to find room to forgive folks for transgressions if we can reasonably conclude that they have grown from and/or beyond their more offensive mistakes, especially if they occurred when the person in question was younger. Just my 2 cents…
- true_religion 3y ago
  I think we all make mistakes. However when you are running for elected office, you need to admit your faults and not hide them. If you want to be private about rape allegations, and incidents of racism, sexism, or harassment of any protected minority group then you ought to simply be a private citizen. Otherwise the public deserves to know. How many people would have not voted for the governor if they knew his past was something he still denied, and had not come to terms with?
  - csa 3y ago
    > If you want to be private about rape allegations, and incidents of racism, sexism, or harassment of any protected minority group I think the problems with all of these is that they are not always clear and they change over time. I’ve mentioned some examples in another part of this thread, but to summarize: 1. If you have not asked explicit permission and received an affirmative response at every stage of a romantic endeavor ever, you can be accused of sexual assault or rape. The affirmative response can be deemed invalid if any alcohol was involved, and can be plausibly denied if there was no written agreement (these actually happen). 2. “Racism” can be something as simple as wearing a costume of a character that is not your race (think Moana or Blue Marvel), or being a member of a group that doesn’t have the right racial ratios (even if there are no discriminatory policies or practices). 3. You can be considered to be a harasser of a protected minority group for doing things like using the word “niggardly” (not etymologically a race-based word) or assigning the book To Kill a Mockingbird as a teacher. These may seem like extreme examples, but these are all things that are happening right now, and I think it’s safe to say that the vanilla forms of all of the actions mentioned above don’t warrant a confession from a potential politician. … yet there are people that will have no problems tarnishing a potential politician’s reputation via highly subjective allegations alone if they don’t agree with that person’s politics. For examples of each of the above, search for): 1. Harvard “rape” case in the 00s, and Duke lacrosse team. 2. Silicon Valley hiring practices. Also see most cases where the term “cultural appropriation” is weaponized. 3. WaPo article (today?) about TKM. “Water buffalo” case at UPenn in the 90s. People getting into trouble for playing the circle game, not realizing that the “OK” hand sign has become a racist dog whistle in some circles.
michaelmrose 3y ago
To play devil's advocate > In 1980, when I was a 19-year-old undergraduate in college, some friends suggested we attend a party dressed like rappers we listened to at the time, like Kurtis Blow, and perform a song,” Herring said in a statement. “It sounds ridiculous even now writing it. But because of our ignorance and glib attitudes – and because we did not have an appreciation for the experiences and perspectives of others – we dressed up and put on wigs and brown makeup. https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/virginia-attorney-general-blackface/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/virginia-attorney-ge... Seems more stupid and less evil than I would have thought.
- true_religion 3y ago
  In retrospect I don’t really hold the act itself against him. However, it’s that as soon as the governor was in trouble, he became the foremost critic as if he had totally forgotten his own past.

ryandrake 3y ago

What is with politicians and blackface? How hard is it to find someone to run for office who didn't wear blackface? I remember at my university we even had a student government leader embroiled in a scandal because he wore blackface at a Halloween party. People, stop with the blackface! How is this not obvious?

whatshisface 3y ago
The problem is that it was apparently far less obvious 50 years ago... The sheer number of conservatives who have been caught doing it shows it's some kind of ex post facto social norm. For liberals supporting "traditional marriage" is the ex post facto norm but there is much more forgiveness available for people who spoke against gay marriage when Obama was against it. There should probably be some kind of accepted system of forgiveness... but the culture is run by its second most progressive so I only expect it to be available for those who merely failed to be the absolute most progressive. I have a good track record of being the absolute most progressive for what it's worth.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Yea, I get it, there's history and attitudes changing. But, you'd think in 2021, someone thinking about running for public office might take a few minutes, sit down, and run through the checklist. You know, the basics: Did I ever rape anyone? Was I in the KKK? Did I ever wear blackface?
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    That's an, "arson, murder and jaywalking" list if I have ever heard one. :-) And no, I think that when those teenagers were donning their offensive Halloween costumes, they did not think it was going to cause serious offense decades in the future.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      In this case, the governor wasn’t a teenager. He was a 27 year old medical school student when the yearbook photo was taken. To make matters worse, this was the same year his school had its first black student so many white students were using the yearbook as an excuse to protest.
  - csa 3y ago
    > Did I ever rape anyone? Was I in the KKK? Did I ever wear blackface? I think this is a gross oversimplification. Let me modernize the questions for the current era (since the alleged infractions were decades ago): 1. Have I ever touch someone romantically in any way without asking for explicit permission and receiving explicit approval? This is the alleged “standard” these days, although I think that it is only strictly adhered to in one very narrow social group. Overall, “feeling safe” and “respect” seems to be more common than it was many decades ago, but those are still a far cry from explicit consent at every step that some folks use as a “standard”. So if a potential politician cannot answer yes to this, then they leave themselves to being accused of being a rapist and/or sexual predator. 2. Am I in a social group that has a racial mix that does not approximate the local ratios (esp. if white)? California, where I live, is taking stances on equality that focus on outcomes more than opportunities. An unfortunate byproduct of this is that a group that is open to all groups, has members of at least all major groups, and has no policy or pattern of discrimination can still be called racist if their racial ratios are not at a certain level. This basically means that most private clubs are “racist” by this definition. Moose, Rotary, Chambers of Commerce, golf clubs, fraternities and sororities, American Legion branches, Masons (even Prince Hall), etc. are all organizations that have active members now that could be deemed “racist” if “racism” is defined as equality of outcome (as it is currently in CA K-12 education). Any potential policitian who is a member of one of these groups runs the risk of being called a racist. 3. Have I ever worn a costume of a character that is not my race? Moana, Mulan, Tiana, Jasmine, Pocahontas, are some Disney characters that are potentially out of bounds. Luke Cage, Blue Marvel, Storm, Blade, Misty Knight, Black Panther, and Moon Girl are Marvel characters that are potentially out of bounds. Any potential politician has to make sure that they have not worn any of these sorts of costumes, since at some point they may be accused of being racist or engaging in cultural appropriation. Times change, people make mistakes, people grow… we need to allow space for this, especially when a questionable action was not done with malicious intent.

Gibbon1 3y ago

Gov Newsom boinked his campaign managers wife. Gov Schwarzenegger knocked up his housekeeper. Not sure that impacted their day job but gives me some pause.

lazide 3y ago

Only East coast ones? I think a closet full of skeletons is pretty much required for any political candidate!

samus 3y ago
Makes it easier for the party or other handlers to keep them in line...

dekhn 3y ago

I'm confused- if a state delegate stormed the capitol (breaking a law), why wouldn't they be arrested and pulled from their house? Or are you saying it's crazy that a person who was elected to be a state delegate would then storm the capitol (that only occurred to me after typing my first question)? Interesting- after being arrested, he resigned his delegate position and took full responsibility, plead guilty, went to jail, and then renounced his admission of guilt. What a quality fellow.

Amezarak 3y ago
Entering the Capitol in a protest by itself is not unusual. Protests occur in the Capitol regularly. Without the retrospective view and full knowledge of January 6, “storming the Capitol” appears in a different light, if you concerned about the mens rea of the delegate. It is likely that the vast majority of people that day, the hardliner crazies excepted, had no idea or expectation they’d be facing charges.
- dekhn 3y ago
  I agree, entering the capitol in a peaceful was is not unusual (we saw an occupation of the rotunda only a few days ago). But from the very first moments the aggresive crowd was gathering outside the capitol, it was pretty clear it was a lawless event (I watched the whole thing realtime on several different news sources). For example if the door to the capitol is locked and people start breaking windows to enter... that moves from "protest" to "storming" pretty much instantly. And he filmed himself with a helmet on, going through the broken-into doors.
  - Amezarak 3y ago
    Oh sure, it definitely devolved into a riot, and I can’t say anything about this guy in particular because I don’t know the details. My point is that just showing up to a protest in or at the Capitol is not really an unusual thing, and most of the people there, probably including the delegate, had no idea there’d be any consequences. Peaceful is sort of a spectrum too - it’s not uncommon for Congressmen and their assistants to get shoved a little, screamed at in their faces, spit on, that sort of thing. Sort of an occupational hazard. Sometimes it makes for great photographs. Certainly what happened that day exceeded the norm, though, which meant a lot of people who showed up with legal motives got wrapped up in something else. Unfortunately it’s become so politicized (in part thanks to very bad reporting the day of) it’s rare to have a sensible discussion about it - thanks for your response - and clearly you know more about this particular situation than I do.

csa 3y ago

> So now, I'm of the notion that all east coast politicians are hiding skeletons in their closets. Serious question… What percentage of people do you think have not done something in their youth (let’s generously call that 22 and under) that would offend one or more groups of people? Of those, what percentage do you think want to become politicians? My guess is that the Venn diagram of these two groups rounds to 0%. People make mistakes, sometimes egregious, though sometimes (often times?) without malice. If we want a wider pool to select our public figures from, we need to find room to forgive folks for transgressions if we can reasonably conclude that they have grown from and/or beyond their more offensive mistakes, especially if they occurred when the person in question was younger. Just my 2 cents…

true_religion 3y ago
I think we all make mistakes. However when you are running for elected office, you need to admit your faults and not hide them. If you want to be private about rape allegations, and incidents of racism, sexism, or harassment of any protected minority group then you ought to simply be a private citizen. Otherwise the public deserves to know. How many people would have not voted for the governor if they knew his past was something he still denied, and had not come to terms with?
- csa 3y ago
  > If you want to be private about rape allegations, and incidents of racism, sexism, or harassment of any protected minority group I think the problems with all of these is that they are not always clear and they change over time. I’ve mentioned some examples in another part of this thread, but to summarize: 1. If you have not asked explicit permission and received an affirmative response at every stage of a romantic endeavor ever, you can be accused of sexual assault or rape. The affirmative response can be deemed invalid if any alcohol was involved, and can be plausibly denied if there was no written agreement (these actually happen). 2. “Racism” can be something as simple as wearing a costume of a character that is not your race (think Moana or Blue Marvel), or being a member of a group that doesn’t have the right racial ratios (even if there are no discriminatory policies or practices). 3. You can be considered to be a harasser of a protected minority group for doing things like using the word “niggardly” (not etymologically a race-based word) or assigning the book To Kill a Mockingbird as a teacher. These may seem like extreme examples, but these are all things that are happening right now, and I think it’s safe to say that the vanilla forms of all of the actions mentioned above don’t warrant a confession from a potential politician. … yet there are people that will have no problems tarnishing a potential politician’s reputation via highly subjective allegations alone if they don’t agree with that person’s politics. For examples of each of the above, search for): 1. Harvard “rape” case in the 00s, and Duke lacrosse team. 2. Silicon Valley hiring practices. Also see most cases where the term “cultural appropriation” is weaponized. 3. WaPo article (today?) about TKM. “Water buffalo” case at UPenn in the 90s. People getting into trouble for playing the circle game, not realizing that the “OK” hand sign has become a racist dog whistle in some circles.

michaelmrose 3y ago

To play devil's advocate > In 1980, when I was a 19-year-old undergraduate in college, some friends suggested we attend a party dressed like rappers we listened to at the time, like Kurtis Blow, and perform a song,” Herring said in a statement. “It sounds ridiculous even now writing it. But because of our ignorance and glib attitudes – and because we did not have an appreciation for the experiences and perspectives of others – we dressed up and put on wigs and brown makeup. https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/virginia-attorney-general-blackface/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/virginia-attorney-ge... Seems more stupid and less evil than I would have thought.

true_religion 3y ago
In retrospect I don’t really hold the act itself against him. However, it’s that as soon as the governor was in trouble, he became the foremost critic as if he had totally forgotten his own past.