5 ms·

You are missing option d), raise the standard of living so that no one lives in poverty, and no one feels that stealing is the best way to get what they want.

vorpalhex 3y ago
We have the highest standard of living in the world. There will always be thieves. Even in a post-scarcity utopia there will be thieves.
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  By what measure? Every standard of living / quality of life measurement I look at doesn't put the United States even near the top 10.
  - gustavus 3y ago
    You're right after all it's not like there are people all over the world risking their lives for the shot to come to the US. The US is a late stage capitalist hell hole that no one really wants to live in and is worse than every where else in the world (by which we mean a few handpicked countries in Western Europe that have much smaller population and borders).
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      Asking for some form of proof isn't accusing the US of being a hell hole, and I can't help but feel that a people that actually felt confident in their standard of living supremacy wouldn't be so touchy about it. Belligerence isn't an argument, and "People wants to be there" is only proof of good PR. Speaking as a foreigner, it seems to me that this whole "USA #1" mentality is keeping a lot of people from reflecting on the reality of their situation and from being willing to try and make things better, as is evidenced by the person I was responding to - to paraphrase a bit their take seems to be "we're the best so we can't possibly fix the problem". That argument doesn't really make sense if you're actually not.
  - p_j_w 3y ago
    GP forgot to consider what life looks like outside of the “I have a Masters Degree in CS/Engineering” bubble.
- crote 3y ago
  The problem with the USA is that those "highest standards of living" are not well-distributed, and there is a lack of a safety net at the lower end. 13% of the population lives below the poverty line. 1 in 400 people has to live on less than $2.15 a day. I completely agree that there will still be thieves in a post-scarcity utopia, but those will basically just be bored housewives looking for a thrill. We should definitely work on reducing the number of people who resort to stealing in order to survive, though.
- sixothree 3y ago
  No offense. But you clearly have not seen the abject poverty millions upon millions of people are living in. Here. In America.
psychlops 3y ago
Maybe he skipped that since eliminating poverty is an impossible solution.
- kennywinker 3y ago
  UBI
  - psychlops 3y ago
    That gives them money, but doesn't fulfill the requirements he set forth.
    - kennywinker 3y ago
      The requirements of “nobody lives in poverty” or the requirement of “no one feels that stealing is the best way to get what they want” Because ubi would 100% eradicate poverty as we currently define it: making under a certain income level. Would it improve living situations or get rid of stealing as a “best way to get what you want”? Idk - but it seems clear it’d work better than what we’re currently doing (systematically impoverishing millions because otherwise nobody would get to own a superyacht)
- Ajay-p 3y ago
  I did not consider poverty elimination as an option, but thinking about it now, I don't think eliminating poverty is feasible, nor a short term solution to a serious quality of life issue. It is also questionable, given other comments, that this is a poverty issue. I recognize some may steal to feed themselves, or to sell to gain money to purchase life sustaining goods, but I do not believe that is something we can know for sure.
gustavus 3y ago
Duuhh it was so obvious the whole time, why don't we just fix poverty. It's so simple. I mean it's not like there are dozens of confounding factors that make it a complicated problem like mental health issues, disabilities, immigration, substance abuse, or a dozen other things. No it's probably all just the evil capitalist class, if we just got rid of them then everyone would be equal and joy and peace would exist forever just like in the Soviet Union known as a bastion of joy and freedom and peace, and they had practically no crime to boot. Was it because of a totalitarian police state that banished people to die in the frozens wastes of Siberia for life? No it was because the capitalists were gone that's clearly the solution.

vorpalhex 3y ago

We have the highest standard of living in the world. There will always be thieves. Even in a post-scarcity utopia there will be thieves.

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
By what measure? Every standard of living / quality of life measurement I look at doesn't put the United States even near the top 10.
- gustavus 3y ago
  You're right after all it's not like there are people all over the world risking their lives for the shot to come to the US. The US is a late stage capitalist hell hole that no one really wants to live in and is worse than every where else in the world (by which we mean a few handpicked countries in Western Europe that have much smaller population and borders).
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    Asking for some form of proof isn't accusing the US of being a hell hole, and I can't help but feel that a people that actually felt confident in their standard of living supremacy wouldn't be so touchy about it. Belligerence isn't an argument, and "People wants to be there" is only proof of good PR. Speaking as a foreigner, it seems to me that this whole "USA #1" mentality is keeping a lot of people from reflecting on the reality of their situation and from being willing to try and make things better, as is evidenced by the person I was responding to - to paraphrase a bit their take seems to be "we're the best so we can't possibly fix the problem". That argument doesn't really make sense if you're actually not.
- p_j_w 3y ago
  GP forgot to consider what life looks like outside of the “I have a Masters Degree in CS/Engineering” bubble.
crote 3y ago
The problem with the USA is that those "highest standards of living" are not well-distributed, and there is a lack of a safety net at the lower end. 13% of the population lives below the poverty line. 1 in 400 people has to live on less than $2.15 a day. I completely agree that there will still be thieves in a post-scarcity utopia, but those will basically just be bored housewives looking for a thrill. We should definitely work on reducing the number of people who resort to stealing in order to survive, though.
sixothree 3y ago
No offense. But you clearly have not seen the abject poverty millions upon millions of people are living in. Here. In America.

psychlops 3y ago

Maybe he skipped that since eliminating poverty is an impossible solution.

kennywinker 3y ago
UBI
- psychlops 3y ago
  That gives them money, but doesn't fulfill the requirements he set forth.
  - kennywinker 3y ago
    The requirements of “nobody lives in poverty” or the requirement of “no one feels that stealing is the best way to get what they want” Because ubi would 100% eradicate poverty as we currently define it: making under a certain income level. Would it improve living situations or get rid of stealing as a “best way to get what you want”? Idk - but it seems clear it’d work better than what we’re currently doing (systematically impoverishing millions because otherwise nobody would get to own a superyacht)
Ajay-p 3y ago
I did not consider poverty elimination as an option, but thinking about it now, I don't think eliminating poverty is feasible, nor a short term solution to a serious quality of life issue. It is also questionable, given other comments, that this is a poverty issue. I recognize some may steal to feed themselves, or to sell to gain money to purchase life sustaining goods, but I do not believe that is something we can know for sure.

gustavus 3y ago

Duuhh it was so obvious the whole time, why don't we just fix poverty. It's so simple. I mean it's not like there are dozens of confounding factors that make it a complicated problem like mental health issues, disabilities, immigration, substance abuse, or a dozen other things. No it's probably all just the evil capitalist class, if we just got rid of them then everyone would be equal and joy and peace would exist forever just like in the Soviet Union known as a bastion of joy and freedom and peace, and they had practically no crime to boot. Was it because of a totalitarian police state that banished people to die in the frozens wastes of Siberia for life? No it was because the capitalists were gone that's clearly the solution.