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I’m from Nigeria, and I can ascertain that our borders are a joke. At this point, they can just declare visa-free travel across Africa for anyone…it’s not like

I’m from Nigeria, and I can ascertain that our borders are a joke. At this point, they can just declare visa-free travel across Africa for anyone…it’s not like they’re many desirable destinations on this continent that need to be gated.

eschulz 3y ago
I'm concerned this is going to further facilitate the exploitation of unskilled labor in these countries by the business class. I saw something online a few years ago about foreign workers in Kenya being treated much worse than their Kenyan peers (they were working in construction). Do you think this is a valid concern?
- doublerabbit 3y ago
  Yes. It's exactly what the UK is doing by shipping illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Who will probably now be sent off to Kenyan camps, one could speculate.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  They don’t need foreign workers. Locals are already exploited enough because labor laws are lax or non-existent. I can tell many stories of white-collar workers being treated like trash, talk less of unskilled labor. This will just continue the status quo until we find a solution to the exploitation.
- Maken 3y ago
  It can also work in the opposite direction: legal immigrants can bargain for better wages and report abuses to the authorities, while illegal immigrants are under the constant thread of being reported and kicked out of the country.
AdamN 3y ago
The real purpose of the visa is money from fees. The people who arrive in the airports are the ones dealing with the visa process and they're all paying $50/visa or so - it's a big money maker.
preciousoo 3y ago
Saying this shows you aren’t following any type of news in Africa at all. Living ranges from decent, bad, worse, to all levels of terrible. Kenya is a place with a lot of decent and bad, surrounded by countries with decent and bad as well, alongside various levels of terrible. I love this move from Kenya but it does have real risk, and I’d hate to see another South Africa scenario, xenophobia wise
- O_nlogn 3y ago
  > I’d hate to see another South Africa scenario, xenophobia wise For the uniformed, South Africa has a growing nativist political vigilante movement which violently targets foreign people and businesses called Operation Dudula [1] (Zulu for "push out/forcefully expel"). They attribute South Africa's social and economic problems to other migrant Africans, rather than the mismanagement and corruption of the ANC. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66808346 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66808346
  - preciousoo 3y ago
    The problem is that there aren’t any real leaders that are loved in their country. Ironically, the closest to be liked (atleast externally among Africans) are the Rwandan and Ghanaian presidents. But the citizens living in said countries have varying levels of dislike for said leaders. It will be an easy task for said leaders/citizens to put blame on migrants for the movements. South Africa has been mentioned, but a lot of people in Ghana’s opinion on recent tourism friendly attitudes range from dislike to blaming it on inflation/devaluation there. Immigration is always an easy scapegoat, it’s almost cheating.
  - salamanderss 3y ago
    Worked great for Zimbabwe!
- abenga 3y ago
  We have had visa free travel within East Africa for a long while now, and nothing massively horrible has happened, despite the other countries in East Africa having it, to various degrees, worse compared to Kenya. Plus Kenya already spent decades hosting millions of refugees fleeing wars from South Sudan and Somalia, again to no massively horrible effect.
kiviuq 3y ago
Why are you saying that ;) there are right now several cyclists from Morocco traveling a long the coast, true Nigeria had problems in the east with extortionists going rampant, but overall our continent is beautiful and full of lovely people. https://youtu.be/pSHgn8BGyI8?t=471 https://youtu.be/pSHgn8BGyI8?t=471
- boeingUH60 3y ago
  > But overall our continent is beautiful and full of lovely people. Mehn spare me, I have heard this over and over again, and yes it’s true. But being “beautiful and lovely” doesn’t build a nation. Hidden behind this facade of beauty is a horrible culture that celebrates corruption, tribalism and lack of cooperation, backbiting, and shortsightedness, which is why our continent remains poor. Africa will remain a basket case until we reform our culture into one that celebrates honest work and mutual cooperation over corruption and cheating to earn a living, which is doable :) But, no matter how much lipstick a pig wears…
  - camdat 3y ago
    >Hidden behind this facade of beauty is a horrible culture that celebrates corruption, tribalism and lack of cooperation, backbiting, and shortsightedness These are all acute problems in Western nations. The fundamental impediment which Africa faces are it's rich natural resources and the nations which exploit them. Any "anti-corruption" cultural efforts will be snuffed out long before it becomes a threat to this lucrative expropriation There is no cultural solution to the boot of political and economic struggle.
    - boeingUH60 3y ago
      I’m not buying this but sure, we Africans never take responsibility. We’ll first blame the other tribe, then the country next to us, then long-gone colonial powers, and finally the devil when we run out of excuses. As if it’s not our leaders selling out the country to foreign interests for pocket change. Maybe they could pick up a book from Lee Kuan Yew and learn how he rejected a bribe from the CIA.

eschulz 3y ago

I'm concerned this is going to further facilitate the exploitation of unskilled labor in these countries by the business class. I saw something online a few years ago about foreign workers in Kenya being treated much worse than their Kenyan peers (they were working in construction). Do you think this is a valid concern?

doublerabbit 3y ago
Yes. It's exactly what the UK is doing by shipping illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Who will probably now be sent off to Kenyan camps, one could speculate.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
boeingUH60 3y ago
They don’t need foreign workers. Locals are already exploited enough because labor laws are lax or non-existent. I can tell many stories of white-collar workers being treated like trash, talk less of unskilled labor. This will just continue the status quo until we find a solution to the exploitation.
Maken 3y ago
It can also work in the opposite direction: legal immigrants can bargain for better wages and report abuses to the authorities, while illegal immigrants are under the constant thread of being reported and kicked out of the country.

AdamN 3y ago

The real purpose of the visa is money from fees. The people who arrive in the airports are the ones dealing with the visa process and they're all paying $50/visa or so - it's a big money maker.

preciousoo 3y ago

Saying this shows you aren’t following any type of news in Africa at all. Living ranges from decent, bad, worse, to all levels of terrible. Kenya is a place with a lot of decent and bad, surrounded by countries with decent and bad as well, alongside various levels of terrible. I love this move from Kenya but it does have real risk, and I’d hate to see another South Africa scenario, xenophobia wise

O_nlogn 3y ago
> I’d hate to see another South Africa scenario, xenophobia wise For the uniformed, South Africa has a growing nativist political vigilante movement which violently targets foreign people and businesses called Operation Dudula [1] (Zulu for "push out/forcefully expel"). They attribute South Africa's social and economic problems to other migrant Africans, rather than the mismanagement and corruption of the ANC. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66808346 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66808346
- preciousoo 3y ago
  The problem is that there aren’t any real leaders that are loved in their country. Ironically, the closest to be liked (atleast externally among Africans) are the Rwandan and Ghanaian presidents. But the citizens living in said countries have varying levels of dislike for said leaders. It will be an easy task for said leaders/citizens to put blame on migrants for the movements. South Africa has been mentioned, but a lot of people in Ghana’s opinion on recent tourism friendly attitudes range from dislike to blaming it on inflation/devaluation there. Immigration is always an easy scapegoat, it’s almost cheating.
- salamanderss 3y ago
  Worked great for Zimbabwe!
abenga 3y ago
We have had visa free travel within East Africa for a long while now, and nothing massively horrible has happened, despite the other countries in East Africa having it, to various degrees, worse compared to Kenya. Plus Kenya already spent decades hosting millions of refugees fleeing wars from South Sudan and Somalia, again to no massively horrible effect.

kiviuq 3y ago

Why are you saying that ;) there are right now several cyclists from Morocco traveling a long the coast, true Nigeria had problems in the east with extortionists going rampant, but overall our continent is beautiful and full of lovely people. https://youtu.be/pSHgn8BGyI8?t=471 https://youtu.be/pSHgn8BGyI8?t=471

boeingUH60 3y ago
> But overall our continent is beautiful and full of lovely people. Mehn spare me, I have heard this over and over again, and yes it’s true. But being “beautiful and lovely” doesn’t build a nation. Hidden behind this facade of beauty is a horrible culture that celebrates corruption, tribalism and lack of cooperation, backbiting, and shortsightedness, which is why our continent remains poor. Africa will remain a basket case until we reform our culture into one that celebrates honest work and mutual cooperation over corruption and cheating to earn a living, which is doable :) But, no matter how much lipstick a pig wears…
- camdat 3y ago
  >Hidden behind this facade of beauty is a horrible culture that celebrates corruption, tribalism and lack of cooperation, backbiting, and shortsightedness These are all acute problems in Western nations. The fundamental impediment which Africa faces are it's rich natural resources and the nations which exploit them. Any "anti-corruption" cultural efforts will be snuffed out long before it becomes a threat to this lucrative expropriation There is no cultural solution to the boot of political and economic struggle.
  - boeingUH60 3y ago
    I’m not buying this but sure, we Africans never take responsibility. We’ll first blame the other tribe, then the country next to us, then long-gone colonial powers, and finally the devil when we run out of excuses. As if it’s not our leaders selling out the country to foreign interests for pocket change. Maybe they could pick up a book from Lee Kuan Yew and learn how he rejected a bribe from the CIA.