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First observation of a virus attaching to another virus
- zaptheimpaler 3y agoJust thinking about viruses makes me angry and a bit afraid. Viruses are just bad DNA wrapped in a coat. These things are not even alive but reproduce more efficiently than anything else because they are parasites. Its very hard to target them with general purpose drugs because there's so little to target. Half of our DNA is just old viruses which every cell in our body reproduces for no reason. They won but they're not even alive or trying to win. There's just something terrifying about seeing something so mechanical and lifeless yet so powerful against life. I hate them so much.
- rmuratov 3y agoIn that sense our cells aren't alive either.
- notshift 3y ago> Half of our DNA is just old viruses which every cell in our body reproduces for no reason. Seems like every time people think big things in the body are there for no reason, new developments later show them to be wrong. I don’t care to say more than the above because I will already get downvoted for even this much.
- kalium-xyz 3y agoThe fun part is when you realize that the DNA in the nucleus of the cell is only the majority of our genetic information. There is DNA im the mitochondria and there are many side channels which carry genetics. We have a far journey ahead to even understand what we can already map. Not to disparage the efforts done but there is much more to this
- MichaelZuo 3y agoWhat are the 'many side channels'?
- zaptheimpaler 3y agoI think these are called retroviruses [1]. Not an expert but if I remember correctly, that DNA can sometimes mutate and turn into something useful and this has happened before so they're not totally useless. But most of the time that DNA is inactivated, non-coding so it doesn't make any proteins. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus
- kalium-xyz 3y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_genetic_elements https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_genetic_elements
- tessierashpool 3y agoThese things are not even alive Citation needed.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 3y agoViruses have some characteristics of life (they replicate and evolve), but they don't have any metabolic processes and can't exist independently, so they're usually not considered "alive" in the same way cells are. They don't grow, they don't have a life cycle, they don't consume or expend energy, or do anything on their own, really. They're merely (quite mechanical) clumps of self replicating generic material.
- Hedepig 3y ago> they're usually not considered "alive" in the same way cells are Still, it's up for debate whether they are alive, regardless whether it's the same way that cells are alive
- Hedepig 3y agoIf it's some consolation, I've just listened to a recent podcast on This Week in Virology (as recommended by another comment on this post. And they are talking about research that uses the CMV virus which has certain properties that make it a very effective and crucially long lasting vector that can potentially protect us against all manner of infections and cancers.
- namaria 3y agoPlacenta proteins are apparently a left over from ancient viruses. They aren't killing machines, they are a data sharing feature in a very complex system. I love viruses.
- zaptheimpaler 3y agoYeah this is a nice way to think about it :)
- dopylitty 3y agoViruses are so cool. Plug for the podcast This Week in Virology[0] for discussion of cool virus papers and topics. 0: https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ https://www.microbe.tv/twiv/
- jokowueu 3y agoDo you know of any other podcasts that are this technically deep ?
- dopylitty 3y agoCheck out all the other microbe.tv podcasts[0]. They're all deep but not too impossible for someone without a science background. The hosts try to explain things without using too much jargon. They also do some YouTube live streams where they take questions from the chat. They have two podcasts for microbiology. This Week in Microbiology is similar to TWiV in that they usually cover papers or talk to a researcher about a paper. Matters Microbial doesn't cover papers but has interviews with working microbiologists where they geek out about their research. They also have a great podcast on immunology with very enthusiastic hosts, one for neuroscience, one for parasitism, and a couple of infectious disease/clinical/public health podcasts. The great thing about all of them is how infectious the hosts' enthusiasm is. 0: https://www.microbe.tv/science-shows-by-scientists/ https://www.microbe.tv/science-shows-by-scientists/
- stavros 3y ago> The great thing about all of them is how infectious the hosts' enthusiasm is. Well, if there's one group I would expect that of...
- bigbillheck 3y ago> Matters Microbial I haven't listened to any of these because I can't stand Mark Martin, and I'm hoping having his own show keeps him out of TWiM.
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- biomattr 3y agoSome endogenous retroviruses will package other endogeneous viruses into capsid-like vesicles that are transmitted to nearby cells. One of these envelope-like proteins, Arc, is essential for human brain development. Viruses run the show. Where just catching up to speed.
- InCityDreams 3y ago# ah, not computer viruses's.
- bozhark 3y agoJust wait. Art imitates life
- vorticalbox 3y agoI've read about some malware that will act like an anti virus by patching exploits and removing other injections so that it stays the only active one.
- drdaeman 3y agoWell, Nimda was riding on Code Red, and Dabber was riding on Sasser. That's worms using holes or exploits left by other worms, so not an exact analogy. Sadly, I can't remember any virii [sic] attaching to others (it's been a looong while since I've last read any AV bulletin - that was in '00s, I think), but I believe there was something like that too.
- verisimi 3y ago> The project started out as a typical semester in the SEA-PHAGES program—an investigative curriculum where undergraduates isolate bacteriophages from environmental samples, send them out for sequencing, and then use bioinformatics tools to analyze the results. When the sequencing lab at the University of Pittsburgh reported contamination in the sample from UMBC expected to contain the MindFlayer phage, the journey began. I don't get what's going on here. It sounds like they have sampled something, and somehow frozen the scene. They see something interesting (via "sequencing" + bioinformatics tools) that showed up as "contamination", and then they get a microscope (transmission electron microscope (TEM)) on that very scene. But how is it possible to isolate and perfectly 'freeze' some sample, such that it can be analysed twice or more with different tools? Are we talking about a physical sample, or are we talking about data output from software? If anyone knows what this all means and can translate it to English, that would be appreciated!
- alyx 3y agoI really do not understand viruses. Given that viruses do not have a metabolism and are not able to produce their own energy, how do these satellite viruses then survive off of other viruses? I don't even understand how without energy producing mechanisms viruses can survive, propagate, etc. Can anybody recommend any good books on the matter?
- quonn 3y agoThe propagate by entering cells that do produce their energy? Theoretically not producing spendable energy would not exclude activity either as long as some previously made energy is spent.
- alyx 3y agoHow do you "enter a cell" without exerting energy?
- dist-epoch 3y agoYou convince the cell to bring you in. Or you "store" energy when you are built - sars-cov-2 is built with a coiled spring which is triggered by a cell receptor when it binds. This coiled spring releases mechanical energy to force merging between virus and cell wall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Qi-hAXdJo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Qi-hAXdJo
- OmarShehata 3y agoIt's the same way chemicals have effects even though they have no energy/way to move themselves etc: they just diffuse in whatever medium they're in (like salt diffusing in water). No energy needed
- fsckboy 3y agocells are not dead lumps, they are living things driven by energy (food sugar), doing stuff all the time and reacting to their environment (even if their environment is inside your body). The surface of the cell, the cell membrane, is a wall that has little "doors" or "windows" that will open and close to let stuff IN (sugar to burn for example, and raw protein parts (amino acids) so they can make them into useful proteins, and they open the windows to let stuff OUT, waste products, the useful proteins they just made, CO2. There's another membrane doing a similar thing around the nucleus within the cell. The windows in these walls open and close automatically controlled a bit like a lock with magnets in it. If a "key" with the right combination of magnets is inserted in the lock, the lock magnets will align to open the window. Viruses carry keys that know how to get in your windows, pretending to be authorized but it's a forgery. The virus doesn't "do" anything, it doesn't know its not doing anything, it just hangs around till it fits a lock. Viruses that look like good keys get into the reproduction system and reproduce. Viruses that don't unlock anything don't. if your tea leaves have these viruses in them, adding water to the tea will spread the viruses around the same way the tea spreads, and they will come into contact with your tongue cells.
- Beijinger 3y ago"No one had ever seen one virus latching onto another virus" True? The virophage – a virus that infects other viruses PUBLISHED AUGUST 7, 2008 https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-virophage-a-virus-that-infects-other-viruses https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/the-virop...
- graphe 3y agoAfter reading both articles it was "seen" in this one but it was known by baysian inference that the Sputnik virus infected other viruses as a parasite.
- Beijinger 3y agoPlease elaborate. This recent papers seems to suggest they are legit: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10301787/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10301787/
- graphe 3y agoThis one they saw it in action, the other was inferred. They have it in a picture. They reference Sputnik here too.
- jryb 3y agoVirophages (up until now, as far as I know) have only been observed to interact with their host phage inside of a prokaryotic cell.
- chirau 3y agoI wonder if some computer 'viruses' can do the same.
- peddling-brink 3y agoUsing someone else’s back door is definitely a thing, as is scanning for other infections and killing them.
- ShrigmaMale 3y agothis is probably half of what shodan is used for lmao
- Obscurity4340 3y agoIts like Dr Evil's factory that manufactures miniature factory models
- whatsakandr 3y agoAs a alumi, it's very nice to see UMBC.edu the front page of hacker news! When I was there, they were #1 "Up and coming university" for a few years straight. Hopefully that's still not the case.