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The defense really had no option. Several of Bankman-Fried's previous defense teams quit on him due to his behavior. Even in this trial, during a session with j

by bmitc 3y ago

The defense really had no option. Several of Bankman-Fried's previous defense teams quit on him due to his behavior. Even in this trial, during a session with just the judge, the defense made an objection to a question, the judge sustained it, but Bankman-Fried answered anyways. His own defense team asked him where had he been this entire trial because the objection was sustained, you didn't have to answer that. Bankman-Fried retorted that he felt like he had to answer that one. Just think of how crazy you need to be to frustrate the only lawyer who would take Ghislaine Maxwell's case. At the end of the day, the defense had an unwinnable case. Their defendent is an idiot, and all of his co-conspirators plead guilty to all charges.

hintymad 3y ago
Yeah, I remember that. It was appalling.
bambax 3y ago
Well said. > Several of Bankman-Fried's previous defense teams quit on him I remember SBF told someone at some point during his ill-advised media tour post-collapse, that his lawyers could "go fuck themselves". But I was wondering what happened then with said lawyer... Is there a list somewhere of the teams that quit?
- planede 3y ago
  They probably took half of the advise and just went.
- Kye 3y ago
  I hoped there would be a "Category: lawyers who fired famous clients" or something like it, but no luck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_representation
  - afavour 3y ago
    I imagine it’s mutually beneficial to keep quiet. Lawyers don’t want to be known as “the company that keeps firing clients”, clients don’t want it known how many lawyers have fired them.
    - kosievdmerwe 3y ago
      And even if you fire a client, you still have a duty towards them in regards to not tanking their defense.
- pseingatl 3y ago
  It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong. I have a semi- high-profile case where the client honestly thinks he did nothing wrong. I tell him that doesn't matter; they can prove you did. You've provided nothing to make them question their judgment. Still he persists, "but I did nothing wrong." I've been sending him excerpts from the SBF prosecution to get him to wake up, but no luck.
  - bloomingeek 3y ago
    I sympathize with you, When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking. I once worked with a guy who decided to start taking testosterone because he didn't have the energy he once had. We were the same age and I told him it was part of the normal process of aging. I also told him T was a fad in most cases and cautioned him not to use it, even if it was under a doctor's care. Even though this wasn't necessarily a moral issue, it did almost cost him his job and marriage. He didn't get the energy he wanted, but he did get rage issues. I kept trying to point this out, but he just wouldn't listen. He never admitted he was wrong about using T, however he was forced to quit using it.
    - grvdrm 3y ago
      > When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking It feels quite classically narcissist to me. I work for one. I'm not saying that lack of moral compass and narcissist are identical traits, but there are similar issues. And as someone working for that sort of personality, I go through a simple reassurance process every day: have a lost sight of his true being (narccissist) or am I all the sudden calling him brilliant, drinking the cool-aid, saying I love him. Luckily, I'm firmly grounded that I know who/what I am getting when I speak with him but talk with folks all over the company that are on the other side. It's amazing to hear it. SBF was that CEO and unfortunately, in my view, most of his folks were in the kool-aid/love-you camp. To add to the parent post that had this: > It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong It's extremely difficult to work with someone who thinks they can do no wrong as well. I try hard NOT to be that person.
    - 3y ago
meaningjoj 3y ago
This says something of culture of hubris that is so easily elevated to leadership positions in America's tech culture. It's nice to see one of these fail-bros get taken down. But two points remain. 1. Had they been able to sustain this Ponzi scheme to IPO, he would be celebrated as a tech-god, as opposed to facing hard time. 2. The VCs aren't required to disclose their sales of crypto. My guess is they made money of this clown, directly at the expense of all the FTC users he fleeced. As long as that keeps happening, this sort of thing will never stop.
- IKantRead 3y ago
  > My guess is they made money of this clown I've always felt this was probably the case. Take an idiot that needs to feel important, tell him he's a "boy genius" who can do no wrong and is always going to be misunderstood, and you basically have the perfect patsy. Till the end SBF just could not let go of that idea that he was smarter than everyone else, never realizing that this was always just a marketing gimmick. At least Caroline Ellison had the sense to realize that she was living a delusion and quickly did what she could to walk away with minimal harm done to herself. In a few years she'll probably find herself making book deals and getting paid outrageous consulting fees once memory fades enough.
  - rchaud 3y ago
    > In a few years she'll probably find herself making book deals and getting paid outrageous consulting fees Like Jordan Belfort of Wolf of Wall Street infamy, or Andy Fastow of Enron. Why shouldn't she get in on the action? American publishers love a comeback story.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    Take an idiot that needs to feel important, tell him he's a "boy genius" This points to something I've always wondered about SBF: why did anybody think he was a genius? I know very specific reasons people think Musk, Jobs, Gates, Zuck, and others are geniuses even if I don't agree in every case. But... SBF? What did he even allegedly do (or preside over) that seemed smart or unique? It was... a crypto exchange. They had their own coin. Uh. Those are not unique things. I don't get it. But your comment made me think. Maybe it was just an empty bubble of perception. VCs pretended he was a genius so they could use him, and told everybody he was a genius, so everybody thought he was a genius even though nobody could point to why they thought that way.
meowface 3y ago
An odd question, but: why is he like this? Even from the start, before the criminal charges, his press tour was so bizarre. Is he just a delusional narcissist who thinks he can talk his way out of anything no matter what? I feel like even very, very long into his prison sentence he's still going to try to talk your head off insisting it was all a big misunderstanding. And he's going to be denied parole because he's going to try the same thing with the parole board every time.
- varelse 3y ago
  [dead]
- nosequel 3y ago
  Work for enough SF startups and you would meet a ton of SBF clones. I wasn't surprised by any of his actions at all. I don't know what it is, but there are so many SBFs in the startup world who think they know everything and don't think there are any consequences for their actions.
  - mangamadaiyan 3y ago
    s/SF startup/Tech Company/ I've seen enough people like this in BigCos. Some of the worst offenders are a certain kind of ex-FAANG employee -- the super brash know-it-all who actually doesn't.
- therealcamino 3y ago
  As an aside, there is no federal parole anymore. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-federal-parole-system.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-federal-parole-sy...
- callalex 3y ago
  He was raised at Stanford by two Stanford professors and surrounded by blowhards that subscribe to the insane concept of “effective altruism”. It’s really no surprise he ended up this way.
saltminer 3y ago
SBF pulled an Alex Jones. A losing case, answering questions for which objections were sustained, thinking he can talk his way out of everything, going through counsel like candy while ignoring their recommendations...truly, a match made in hell.
polynomial 3y ago
The only lawyer to take her case? I thought he specialized in cases like these?

by bmitc 3y ago

hintymad 3y ago

Yeah, I remember that. It was appalling.

bambax 3y ago

Well said. > Several of Bankman-Fried's previous defense teams quit on him I remember SBF told someone at some point during his ill-advised media tour post-collapse, that his lawyers could "go fuck themselves". But I was wondering what happened then with said lawyer... Is there a list somewhere of the teams that quit?

planede 3y ago
They probably took half of the advise and just went.
Kye 3y ago
I hoped there would be a "Category: lawyers who fired famous clients" or something like it, but no luck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_representation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_representation
- afavour 3y ago
  I imagine it’s mutually beneficial to keep quiet. Lawyers don’t want to be known as “the company that keeps firing clients”, clients don’t want it known how many lawyers have fired them.
  - kosievdmerwe 3y ago
    And even if you fire a client, you still have a duty towards them in regards to not tanking their defense.
pseingatl 3y ago
It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong. I have a semi- high-profile case where the client honestly thinks he did nothing wrong. I tell him that doesn't matter; they can prove you did. You've provided nothing to make them question their judgment. Still he persists, "but I did nothing wrong." I've been sending him excerpts from the SBF prosecution to get him to wake up, but no luck.
- bloomingeek 3y ago
  I sympathize with you, When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking. I once worked with a guy who decided to start taking testosterone because he didn't have the energy he once had. We were the same age and I told him it was part of the normal process of aging. I also told him T was a fad in most cases and cautioned him not to use it, even if it was under a doctor's care. Even though this wasn't necessarily a moral issue, it did almost cost him his job and marriage. He didn't get the energy he wanted, but he did get rage issues. I kept trying to point this out, but he just wouldn't listen. He never admitted he was wrong about using T, however he was forced to quit using it.
  - grvdrm 3y ago
    > When a person's moral compass gets so off, for whatever reason, it's kind of heart breaking It feels quite classically narcissist to me. I work for one. I'm not saying that lack of moral compass and narcissist are identical traits, but there are similar issues. And as someone working for that sort of personality, I go through a simple reassurance process every day: have a lost sight of his true being (narccissist) or am I all the sudden calling him brilliant, drinking the cool-aid, saying I love him. Luckily, I'm firmly grounded that I know who/what I am getting when I speak with him but talk with folks all over the company that are on the other side. It's amazing to hear it. SBF was that CEO and unfortunately, in my view, most of his folks were in the kool-aid/love-you camp. To add to the parent post that had this: > It is extremely difficult to represent someone who thinks they did nothing wrong It's extremely difficult to work with someone who thinks they can do no wrong as well. I try hard NOT to be that person.
  - 3y ago

meaningjoj 3y ago

This says something of culture of hubris that is so easily elevated to leadership positions in America's tech culture. It's nice to see one of these fail-bros get taken down. But two points remain. 1. Had they been able to sustain this Ponzi scheme to IPO, he would be celebrated as a tech-god, as opposed to facing hard time. 2. The VCs aren't required to disclose their sales of crypto. My guess is they made money of this clown, directly at the expense of all the FTC users he fleeced. As long as that keeps happening, this sort of thing will never stop.

IKantRead 3y ago
> My guess is they made money of this clown I've always felt this was probably the case. Take an idiot that needs to feel important, tell him he's a "boy genius" who can do no wrong and is always going to be misunderstood, and you basically have the perfect patsy. Till the end SBF just could not let go of that idea that he was smarter than everyone else, never realizing that this was always just a marketing gimmick. At least Caroline Ellison had the sense to realize that she was living a delusion and quickly did what she could to walk away with minimal harm done to herself. In a few years she'll probably find herself making book deals and getting paid outrageous consulting fees once memory fades enough.
- rchaud 3y ago
  > In a few years she'll probably find herself making book deals and getting paid outrageous consulting fees Like Jordan Belfort of Wolf of Wall Street infamy, or Andy Fastow of Enron. Why shouldn't she get in on the action? American publishers love a comeback story.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  Take an idiot that needs to feel important, tell him he's a "boy genius" This points to something I've always wondered about SBF: why did anybody think he was a genius? I know very specific reasons people think Musk, Jobs, Gates, Zuck, and others are geniuses even if I don't agree in every case. But... SBF? What did he even allegedly do (or preside over) that seemed smart or unique? It was... a crypto exchange. They had their own coin. Uh. Those are not unique things. I don't get it. But your comment made me think. Maybe it was just an empty bubble of perception. VCs pretended he was a genius so they could use him, and told everybody he was a genius, so everybody thought he was a genius even though nobody could point to why they thought that way.

meowface 3y ago

An odd question, but: why is he like this? Even from the start, before the criminal charges, his press tour was so bizarre. Is he just a delusional narcissist who thinks he can talk his way out of anything no matter what? I feel like even very, very long into his prison sentence he's still going to try to talk your head off insisting it was all a big misunderstanding. And he's going to be denied parole because he's going to try the same thing with the parole board every time.

varelse 3y ago
[dead]
nosequel 3y ago
Work for enough SF startups and you would meet a ton of SBF clones. I wasn't surprised by any of his actions at all. I don't know what it is, but there are so many SBFs in the startup world who think they know everything and don't think there are any consequences for their actions.
- mangamadaiyan 3y ago
  s/SF startup/Tech Company/ I've seen enough people like this in BigCos. Some of the worst offenders are a certain kind of ex-FAANG employee -- the super brash know-it-all who actually doesn't.
therealcamino 3y ago
As an aside, there is no federal parole anymore. https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-federal-parole-system.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-federal-parole-sy...
callalex 3y ago
He was raised at Stanford by two Stanford professors and surrounded by blowhards that subscribe to the insane concept of “effective altruism”. It’s really no surprise he ended up this way.

saltminer 3y ago

SBF pulled an Alex Jones. A losing case, answering questions for which objections were sustained, thinking he can talk his way out of everything, going through counsel like candy while ignoring their recommendations...truly, a match made in hell.

polynomial 3y ago

The only lawyer to take her case? I thought he specialized in cases like these?