6 ms·

While interesting, I have to ask, what makes reading books, watching TV, and watching movies higher value than whatever it is you're doing on the internet? I l

by orofino 15y ago

While interesting, I have to ask, what makes reading books, watching TV, and watching movies higher value than whatever it is you're doing on the internet? I learn about travel, science, technology, and countless other things through the internet. While not a replacement for real life experiences, I certainly think it could be considered a high-value experience (personally I think it is better than TV), perhaps on par with reading books. Sure, if you're spending all your time playing minecraft online... wait we have kids building graphing calculators in minecraft, nevermind.

jaysonelliot 15y ago
One word: focus. When you're on the internet, you're engaging in bite-size activities and constant task switching. Quick, how many tabs do you have open right now? Until about 1999 or 2000, I accomplished at least four times as much per year as I do today. Before that time, there either was no Web to putter around on, or it existed but without the speed and content it has had since then. Have you ever noticed that your best ideas come when you're in the shower, or maybe on a long drive alone? It's down to focus, and lack of distractions. Even if you think you're reading long-form journalism or other content online, you're most likely doing it in a window of a browser, with visual clutter all around, from UI elements to menu items to the dock at the bottom of the screen. They're all subtle cues to your mind to stay alert for extra input, and not get too zoned in on whatever you're reading. Not to mention the amazing amount of visual crap most webpages surround their content with. There's value to the vast amount of information available online, but you have to be discerning. Information for the sake of information is not always worth the mental and time tradeoffs we make for it.
- _delirium 15y ago
  Perhaps I'm just bad at doing things, but I noticed this way before the internet. Something like this random-walk path: reading a semi-scholarly book, run into an endnote, turn to the end of the book to read it, find a concept I don't know, open up my dead-tree World Book encyclopedia to find it, follow up some cross-references there, eventually remember to go back to the book, try to remember what endnote I was reading and where I got there from, restart. The internet makes it easier, but the pattern doesn't seem new! It's even worse in university libraries, where you can actually follow up all the references by grabbing them off the shelf. The number of books piled up around you with post-it notes marking pages is roughly like the number-of-tabs metric...
- Locke1689 15y ago
  I don't know, it sounds like "I don't have home internet" is more of a stand-in for "I don't have self control." If you want to read a book, just get off the computer and read a book.
  - aiscott 15y ago
    I completely agree and I find it mystifying that you would be downvoted for that comment.
    - jodrellblank 15y ago
      It reeks of ad-hom, it's a bad explanation. It has no more explanatory power than "because you're a bad person". It's nothing more than a way to feel smug with sciencey sounding buzzwords. If you want to read a book, just get off the computer and read a book. Really? I guess I'll "just" stop all my bad habits and replace them with good habits as well, shall I? And I'll "just" stop playing wrong notes on the piano too. Because, y'know, there's no reason I'm playing wrong notes, is there? There's no reason I have bad habits continuing year on year, there's no reason he's spending too much time on the internet, no complex interplay of a lifetime of biological, neurological and psychological drives and feedbacks, right? Humans are simple. That's why there are no problems in the world and everyone "just" is the ideal person they want to be.
      - Dylan16807 15y ago
        It's easy to avoid playing wrong notes on a piano. Just don't play the piano. Nobody is saying that it's easy to avoid internet distraction while using the internet. But it is easy to block out a few hours of not using the internet even if you are paying for a connection. It's quite similar to not going to a coffee shop for the same few hours.
        graeme 15y ago
        OP here. I think it depends on your habits and situation. For me, avoiding the cafe for 4 hours is a lot easier than ignoring my computer and phone for 4 hours. To use the internet at the cafe, I have to put on my shoes, my coat, walk 5 minutes, buy a coffee, sit down, open my computer, etc. It's not hard to do any of that. But it's a lot more effort than pulling my phone out of my pocket.
- ralph 15y ago
  Well put. IIRC pg has two computers, one on the Internet for surfing and stuff, and the other off the Internet and physically distant from the first that's used for work.
- mistercow 15y ago
  > When you're on the internet, you're engaging in bite-size activities and constant task switching. Sometimes. Sometimes I'm doing one thing and focusing on it. > Quick, how many tabs do you have open right now? Not the greatest metric. When I'm working, I often have like seven tabs open, all about what I'm focused on working on. So why would we assume that "number of tabs" is a better indicator of unfocus when discussing leisure time?
- flogic 15y ago
  I think a good portion of it is how much you want to be distracted. I've had internet access since 95. High speed since 96ish. In that time, I've had both distracted and focused periods. Distractions don't come from the internet unless I want them to. In fact, most of my distractions come from around the house. Sure I haven't read "War and Peace" in a week but: a) I read slow. b) I don't have that kind of free time.
- jakerocket 15y ago
  If I am stuck on a tough coding problem, I take a pen and notepad and go to the local coffee shop for an hour or two. I leave behind the phone and laptop. Just doodle, write, think, and drink. Having an IDE open and staring at me is just too intimidating when trying to think high-level.
pavanky 15y ago
I was going to say similar, but there you go, you said it. Granted you need to prioritize when there are deadlines, but reading books and / or watching TV can be equally distracting. Another point I would like to add is that internet, for better and for worse, changes our role from a knowledge consumer to that of a knowledge contributor. which when applied properly, can lead to new questions, new ideas and new conversations. It is because of the internet, Learning has become dynamic, and humanity is for the better.
graeme 15y ago
OP here. Very good question, I should have made this clearer in my post. The internet is extremely useful. I've learned more from Hacker News alone over the past year than I could have learned from any book. I don't need to list the other benefits; everyone here knows the Internet's advantages. But...there is a point of diminishing returns. 30-60 minutes of aimless wandering each day can be highly useful. It's the equivalent of keeping your office door open. Can be distracting, but you learn a lot. But I find that if you spend too long on the internet, the value starts to drop off. But there is much value in reading a book cover to cover, or focussing on a project for hours at a time. I find these things easier to do if I don't have to resist the temptation of the internet in order to do them. Disconnecting my home connecting was a conscious decision based on the fact that I was spending more time online than I would prefer, and not enough time doing other valuable things. But I do not mean to say that time online is not valuable - far from it. p.s. TV was a bad example; I don't watch any now. I only included that to show how much time was freed up.

by orofino 15y ago

jaysonelliot 15y ago

One word: focus. When you're on the internet, you're engaging in bite-size activities and constant task switching. Quick, how many tabs do you have open right now? Until about 1999 or 2000, I accomplished at least four times as much per year as I do today. Before that time, there either was no Web to putter around on, or it existed but without the speed and content it has had since then. Have you ever noticed that your best ideas come when you're in the shower, or maybe on a long drive alone? It's down to focus, and lack of distractions. Even if you think you're reading long-form journalism or other content online, you're most likely doing it in a window of a browser, with visual clutter all around, from UI elements to menu items to the dock at the bottom of the screen. They're all subtle cues to your mind to stay alert for extra input, and not get too zoned in on whatever you're reading. Not to mention the amazing amount of visual crap most webpages surround their content with. There's value to the vast amount of information available online, but you have to be discerning. Information for the sake of information is not always worth the mental and time tradeoffs we make for it.

_delirium 15y ago
Perhaps I'm just bad at doing things, but I noticed this way before the internet. Something like this random-walk path: reading a semi-scholarly book, run into an endnote, turn to the end of the book to read it, find a concept I don't know, open up my dead-tree World Book encyclopedia to find it, follow up some cross-references there, eventually remember to go back to the book, try to remember what endnote I was reading and where I got there from, restart. The internet makes it easier, but the pattern doesn't seem new! It's even worse in university libraries, where you can actually follow up all the references by grabbing them off the shelf. The number of books piled up around you with post-it notes marking pages is roughly like the number-of-tabs metric...
Locke1689 15y ago
I don't know, it sounds like "I don't have home internet" is more of a stand-in for "I don't have self control." If you want to read a book, just get off the computer and read a book.
- aiscott 15y ago
  I completely agree and I find it mystifying that you would be downvoted for that comment.
  - jodrellblank 15y ago
    It reeks of ad-hom, it's a bad explanation. It has no more explanatory power than "because you're a bad person". It's nothing more than a way to feel smug with sciencey sounding buzzwords. If you want to read a book, just get off the computer and read a book. Really? I guess I'll "just" stop all my bad habits and replace them with good habits as well, shall I? And I'll "just" stop playing wrong notes on the piano too. Because, y'know, there's no reason I'm playing wrong notes, is there? There's no reason I have bad habits continuing year on year, there's no reason he's spending too much time on the internet, no complex interplay of a lifetime of biological, neurological and psychological drives and feedbacks, right? Humans are simple. That's why there are no problems in the world and everyone "just" is the ideal person they want to be.
    - Dylan16807 15y ago
      It's easy to avoid playing wrong notes on a piano. Just don't play the piano. Nobody is saying that it's easy to avoid internet distraction while using the internet. But it is easy to block out a few hours of not using the internet even if you are paying for a connection. It's quite similar to not going to a coffee shop for the same few hours.
      - graeme 15y ago
        OP here. I think it depends on your habits and situation. For me, avoiding the cafe for 4 hours is a lot easier than ignoring my computer and phone for 4 hours. To use the internet at the cafe, I have to put on my shoes, my coat, walk 5 minutes, buy a coffee, sit down, open my computer, etc. It's not hard to do any of that. But it's a lot more effort than pulling my phone out of my pocket.
ralph 15y ago
Well put. IIRC pg has two computers, one on the Internet for surfing and stuff, and the other off the Internet and physically distant from the first that's used for work.
mistercow 15y ago
> When you're on the internet, you're engaging in bite-size activities and constant task switching. Sometimes. Sometimes I'm doing one thing and focusing on it. > Quick, how many tabs do you have open right now? Not the greatest metric. When I'm working, I often have like seven tabs open, all about what I'm focused on working on. So why would we assume that "number of tabs" is a better indicator of unfocus when discussing leisure time?
flogic 15y ago
I think a good portion of it is how much you want to be distracted. I've had internet access since 95. High speed since 96ish. In that time, I've had both distracted and focused periods. Distractions don't come from the internet unless I want them to. In fact, most of my distractions come from around the house. Sure I haven't read "War and Peace" in a week but: a) I read slow. b) I don't have that kind of free time.
jakerocket 15y ago
If I am stuck on a tough coding problem, I take a pen and notepad and go to the local coffee shop for an hour or two. I leave behind the phone and laptop. Just doodle, write, think, and drink. Having an IDE open and staring at me is just too intimidating when trying to think high-level.

pavanky 15y ago

I was going to say similar, but there you go, you said it. Granted you need to prioritize when there are deadlines, but reading books and / or watching TV can be equally distracting. Another point I would like to add is that internet, for better and for worse, changes our role from a knowledge consumer to that of a knowledge contributor. which when applied properly, can lead to new questions, new ideas and new conversations. It is because of the internet, Learning has become dynamic, and humanity is for the better.

graeme 15y ago

OP here. Very good question, I should have made this clearer in my post. The internet is extremely useful. I've learned more from Hacker News alone over the past year than I could have learned from any book. I don't need to list the other benefits; everyone here knows the Internet's advantages. But...there is a point of diminishing returns. 30-60 minutes of aimless wandering each day can be highly useful. It's the equivalent of keeping your office door open. Can be distracting, but you learn a lot. But I find that if you spend too long on the internet, the value starts to drop off. But there is much value in reading a book cover to cover, or focussing on a project for hours at a time. I find these things easier to do if I don't have to resist the temptation of the internet in order to do them. Disconnecting my home connecting was a conscious decision based on the fact that I was spending more time online than I would prefer, and not enough time doing other valuable things. But I do not mean to say that time online is not valuable - far from it. p.s. TV was a bad example; I don't watch any now. I only included that to show how much time was freed up.