6 ms·

I went several years more or less depressed and observed this phenomenon and utilized it. Night of Kerbal Space Program and next day the world is much better. F

by fsloth 3y ago

I went several years more or less depressed and observed this phenomenon and utilized it. Night of Kerbal Space Program and next day the world is much better. For a while. Also, a lot fuzzier. And I couldn't code very well (just good enough to do my job so everyone was happy but I could feel slipping). Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. But, for sure in a pinch it does alleviate unbearable darkness. The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot - especially when entering middle age, when you (or I at least) can't shrug off sleep debt as easily. The interesting thing is that this apparently was not well known during my therapy. I discussed this effect with my therapist, and she was skeptical and non-plussed. No hard feelings there, I'm super pleased she was robustly evidence based. But very happy to read these results in any case to validate my personal discovery.

romwell 3y ago
Seconding everything you wrote. Emphasizing: - "The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot" - "Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end" Still resort to this sometimes when I'm not on a schedule (i.e. between jobs).
harimau777 3y ago
> Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. How did you find that therapy helped you? I've started therapy a few months back and so far I can't find all that much value in it. They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, so it mostly feels like I'm mainly getting self help style advice.
- Hard_Space 3y ago
  I've been in therapy over six years, and also did it for a shorter spell in the early 1990s. A few months is really the start of the relationship - it usually takes that long for most people to establish trust with their therapist. That doesn't mean you have the right therapist, but it is hard to know this early on.
- runlaszlorun 3y ago
  That’s my experience as well- though my therapy was a while ago. I had worked a stretch of utterly miserable jobs back then and conversation would always drift back to the work mess I likely left just prior and only frustrate me more. I saw several, mostly because I’d be on different insurance plans, etc. But not once did anyone say “maybe you need a new career path?” If anyone of them had followed that up with “and since procrastination is a problem why don’t we work on helping you get there”, I’d be singing the praises of the field. I’m not hating on the profession or anything and I have friends who swear by it. But each of them, after a bunch of these sessions I could almost see a hint in their eyes of “damnit… none of this crap is working.” Like I slightly felt bad for them in a way. Slightly. And honestly, given the trajectory of the world, I’d be more concerned if many people weren’t depressed. Out of the field, personally I did like Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), but it mostly reinforced what I’d learned from a decade of meditation and my buddhist practice.
  - pr0zac 3y ago
    While I def got more from therapy, I concur regarding ACT being the methodology that worked best for me and that it’s wild how much it overlaps with mindfulness and Buddhist practices.
- pr0zac 3y ago
  You might not have a good fit with your therapist. It took me a few tries but once I found someone with a similar mode of thinking I got a lot more out of the discussions because she said things (often the same things as the prior shrinks) in a way that resonated with my brain better. In that regard, therapy never fixed my problems, but it did help me recognize unhealthy thinking patterns and provide mechanisms for handling them, both of which have helped me avoid spirals and getting trapped in negative thought processes.
- Aeolun 3y ago
  Therapy helped me when I did it in a group. Mostly in making me realize how good I had it. People that weren’t able to drive, weren’t able to go outside at all etc. I was just permanently afraid. What I gained from my other sessions was mostly a ‘get out of jail’ free card to unload all of my thoughts. You can only do that on your family and friends so many time before it starts to wear on them hearing the same things again. But my therapist is paid for that shit, so I have no compunctions. SSRI worked much better on a daily basis, but the therapy was nice when things were bad.
  - fsloth 3y ago
    This is one aspect of therapy for sure. Just discussing your bad stuff with someone who is a talented listener is a very important component IMO to get your stuff together. And I concur. Don't use your friends or family as therapist as a default option. That stuff is hard. Unloading a bunch of negative emotions to a non-professional can be hurtfull and poisonous. There are of course situations were you can share bad stuff with someone but that's a case by case situation.
- missedthecue 3y ago
  In my experience, therapy mainly seems to be a validation and enablement service, on a very big scale. If this is something you're not necessarily seeking, you'll find therapy useless. But a lot of people want it, feel better because of it, and are therefore willing to fork over not insignificant sums to receive it.
  - fsloth 3y ago
    This is not my experience at all. There are different types of therapy with wildly different approaches. What I worked with my therapist were recurring negative thought patterns, the associations and actionable concepts to get better, as well as going through my moderately traumatic family history. Part of that is self-validation, for sure. It helps to hear from a professional that the stuff you've gone through and feel has traumatized you, has been pretty bad and yes, probably has traumatized you. It does not cure the trauma, but naming a condition helps to recognize it's effects in ones thinking, which again helps in modifying ones thought patterns around it. It's really hard to recognize and work on your own negative thought patterns. Like, you can't clean your face without a mirror. You can't comb your hair very well without a mirror. A good therapist in a way works as mirror to your thought, and helps you to clean that stuff up. If one is moderately well functioning then there is nothing left to fix and yes, a therapy may seem somewhat useless.
- fsloth 3y ago
  My therapy probably saved my life, and I'm not exaggerating. While it may take a while to sync with your therapist, it's plausible the chemistry between you two just isn't working, or, that the style of therapy is not helpfull to you. There are tons of different types of therapies. Some try to figure out what makes you tick, and work through that. Others just try to analyze your current state and then simply offer actionable tactics to modify your current mood and thinking. I used the latter. Would have absolutely hated the former. But suitability seems to be really personal. My therapist was purely interested in objective actionable items, negative thought patterns, underlying trauma, etc, and what strategies we could use to try to help me. These things are deeply personal and subjective, but similar issues come again and again between different people, and an experienced therapist can try many different things. One aspect of depression feels that there are bunch of negative thought patterns and their strong negative associations, which feed eachother. A part of my healing was not giving energy to these things - letting them pass over me so to speak, and find ways to alleviate occasional bad spots (deep breathing etc). We worked with therapist with many of these things. Lots and lots of small actionable nudges. "They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, " I don't know your situation so I would not imagine trying to offer suggestions. I can tell what my bad stuff was though. My parents died, my wife became sick and unable to work and my son turned out to have really bad adjustment problems at school. More or less at the same time. And, I was fairly displeased with my job. That came on top of childhood trauma of parental alchoholism, depression and suecide attempts. My therapist really could not fix any of that, nor did they try. What we worked instead was trying to give slight adjustments to my thinking and perception, lifestyle and relationships. Small nudges, here and there, over a long period, in combination with SSRI:s. None of the issues have been fixed. None of them can be fixed. But at least for myself I can again find joy and happiness in a broken world. I truly hope the same for you. I was really lucky finding a suitable therapist early on, but I understand finding suitable therapist can take some time. To my understanding ”therapist shopping” is a normal part of the process, and if you feel your therapist relationship is not working out right now, it might be a good idea to raise this topic with them.

by fsloth 3y ago

romwell 3y ago

Seconding everything you wrote. Emphasizing: - "The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot" - "Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end" Still resort to this sometimes when I'm not on a schedule (i.e. between jobs).

harimau777 3y ago

> Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. How did you find that therapy helped you? I've started therapy a few months back and so far I can't find all that much value in it. They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, so it mostly feels like I'm mainly getting self help style advice.

Hard_Space 3y ago
I've been in therapy over six years, and also did it for a shorter spell in the early 1990s. A few months is really the start of the relationship - it usually takes that long for most people to establish trust with their therapist. That doesn't mean you have the right therapist, but it is hard to know this early on.
runlaszlorun 3y ago
That’s my experience as well- though my therapy was a while ago. I had worked a stretch of utterly miserable jobs back then and conversation would always drift back to the work mess I likely left just prior and only frustrate me more. I saw several, mostly because I’d be on different insurance plans, etc. But not once did anyone say “maybe you need a new career path?” If anyone of them had followed that up with “and since procrastination is a problem why don’t we work on helping you get there”, I’d be singing the praises of the field. I’m not hating on the profession or anything and I have friends who swear by it. But each of them, after a bunch of these sessions I could almost see a hint in their eyes of “damnit… none of this crap is working.” Like I slightly felt bad for them in a way. Slightly. And honestly, given the trajectory of the world, I’d be more concerned if many people weren’t depressed. Out of the field, personally I did like Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), but it mostly reinforced what I’d learned from a decade of meditation and my buddhist practice.
- pr0zac 3y ago
  While I def got more from therapy, I concur regarding ACT being the methodology that worked best for me and that it’s wild how much it overlaps with mindfulness and Buddhist practices.
pr0zac 3y ago
You might not have a good fit with your therapist. It took me a few tries but once I found someone with a similar mode of thinking I got a lot more out of the discussions because she said things (often the same things as the prior shrinks) in a way that resonated with my brain better. In that regard, therapy never fixed my problems, but it did help me recognize unhealthy thinking patterns and provide mechanisms for handling them, both of which have helped me avoid spirals and getting trapped in negative thought processes.
Aeolun 3y ago
Therapy helped me when I did it in a group. Mostly in making me realize how good I had it. People that weren’t able to drive, weren’t able to go outside at all etc. I was just permanently afraid. What I gained from my other sessions was mostly a ‘get out of jail’ free card to unload all of my thoughts. You can only do that on your family and friends so many time before it starts to wear on them hearing the same things again. But my therapist is paid for that shit, so I have no compunctions. SSRI worked much better on a daily basis, but the therapy was nice when things were bad.
- fsloth 3y ago
  This is one aspect of therapy for sure. Just discussing your bad stuff with someone who is a talented listener is a very important component IMO to get your stuff together. And I concur. Don't use your friends or family as therapist as a default option. That stuff is hard. Unloading a bunch of negative emotions to a non-professional can be hurtfull and poisonous. There are of course situations were you can share bad stuff with someone but that's a case by case situation.
missedthecue 3y ago
In my experience, therapy mainly seems to be a validation and enablement service, on a very big scale. If this is something you're not necessarily seeking, you'll find therapy useless. But a lot of people want it, feel better because of it, and are therefore willing to fork over not insignificant sums to receive it.
- fsloth 3y ago
  This is not my experience at all. There are different types of therapy with wildly different approaches. What I worked with my therapist were recurring negative thought patterns, the associations and actionable concepts to get better, as well as going through my moderately traumatic family history. Part of that is self-validation, for sure. It helps to hear from a professional that the stuff you've gone through and feel has traumatized you, has been pretty bad and yes, probably has traumatized you. It does not cure the trauma, but naming a condition helps to recognize it's effects in ones thinking, which again helps in modifying ones thought patterns around it. It's really hard to recognize and work on your own negative thought patterns. Like, you can't clean your face without a mirror. You can't comb your hair very well without a mirror. A good therapist in a way works as mirror to your thought, and helps you to clean that stuff up. If one is moderately well functioning then there is nothing left to fix and yes, a therapy may seem somewhat useless.
fsloth 3y ago
My therapy probably saved my life, and I'm not exaggerating. While it may take a while to sync with your therapist, it's plausible the chemistry between you two just isn't working, or, that the style of therapy is not helpfull to you. There are tons of different types of therapies. Some try to figure out what makes you tick, and work through that. Others just try to analyze your current state and then simply offer actionable tactics to modify your current mood and thinking. I used the latter. Would have absolutely hated the former. But suitability seems to be really personal. My therapist was purely interested in objective actionable items, negative thought patterns, underlying trauma, etc, and what strategies we could use to try to help me. These things are deeply personal and subjective, but similar issues come again and again between different people, and an experienced therapist can try many different things. One aspect of depression feels that there are bunch of negative thought patterns and their strong negative associations, which feed eachother. A part of my healing was not giving energy to these things - letting them pass over me so to speak, and find ways to alleviate occasional bad spots (deep breathing etc). We worked with therapist with many of these things. Lots and lots of small actionable nudges. "They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, " I don't know your situation so I would not imagine trying to offer suggestions. I can tell what my bad stuff was though. My parents died, my wife became sick and unable to work and my son turned out to have really bad adjustment problems at school. More or less at the same time. And, I was fairly displeased with my job. That came on top of childhood trauma of parental alchoholism, depression and suecide attempts. My therapist really could not fix any of that, nor did they try. What we worked instead was trying to give slight adjustments to my thinking and perception, lifestyle and relationships. Small nudges, here and there, over a long period, in combination with SSRI:s. None of the issues have been fixed. None of them can be fixed. But at least for myself I can again find joy and happiness in a broken world. I truly hope the same for you. I was really lucky finding a suitable therapist early on, but I understand finding suitable therapist can take some time. To my understanding ”therapist shopping” is a normal part of the process, and if you feel your therapist relationship is not working out right now, it might be a good idea to raise this topic with them.