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This must be why new parents always seem so bubbly and happy! But seriously, that’s very interesting and explains what I’ve experienced. I’ve been in a depress

This must be why new parents always seem so bubbly and happy! But seriously, that’s very interesting and explains what I’ve experienced. I’ve been in a depression since quitting my phd a couple months ago and not having a direction in life, but whenever I have trouble sleeping I end up feeling better the next day. Maybe I’ll trying utilizing it to get my portfolio looking better.

fsloth 3y ago
I went several years more or less depressed and observed this phenomenon and utilized it. Night of Kerbal Space Program and next day the world is much better. For a while. Also, a lot fuzzier. And I couldn't code very well (just good enough to do my job so everyone was happy but I could feel slipping). Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. But, for sure in a pinch it does alleviate unbearable darkness. The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot - especially when entering middle age, when you (or I at least) can't shrug off sleep debt as easily. The interesting thing is that this apparently was not well known during my therapy. I discussed this effect with my therapist, and she was skeptical and non-plussed. No hard feelings there, I'm super pleased she was robustly evidence based. But very happy to read these results in any case to validate my personal discovery.
- romwell 3y ago
  Seconding everything you wrote. Emphasizing: - "The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot" - "Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end" Still resort to this sometimes when I'm not on a schedule (i.e. between jobs).
- harimau777 3y ago
  > Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. How did you find that therapy helped you? I've started therapy a few months back and so far I can't find all that much value in it. They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, so it mostly feels like I'm mainly getting self help style advice.
  - Hard_Space 3y ago
    I've been in therapy over six years, and also did it for a shorter spell in the early 1990s. A few months is really the start of the relationship - it usually takes that long for most people to establish trust with their therapist. That doesn't mean you have the right therapist, but it is hard to know this early on.
  - runlaszlorun 3y ago
    That’s my experience as well- though my therapy was a while ago. I had worked a stretch of utterly miserable jobs back then and conversation would always drift back to the work mess I likely left just prior and only frustrate me more. I saw several, mostly because I’d be on different insurance plans, etc. But not once did anyone say “maybe you need a new career path?” If anyone of them had followed that up with “and since procrastination is a problem why don’t we work on helping you get there”, I’d be singing the praises of the field. I’m not hating on the profession or anything and I have friends who swear by it. But each of them, after a bunch of these sessions I could almost see a hint in their eyes of “damnit… none of this crap is working.” Like I slightly felt bad for them in a way. Slightly. And honestly, given the trajectory of the world, I’d be more concerned if many people weren’t depressed. Out of the field, personally I did like Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), but it mostly reinforced what I’d learned from a decade of meditation and my buddhist practice.
    - pr0zac 3y ago
      While I def got more from therapy, I concur regarding ACT being the methodology that worked best for me and that it’s wild how much it overlaps with mindfulness and Buddhist practices.
  - pr0zac 3y ago
    You might not have a good fit with your therapist. It took me a few tries but once I found someone with a similar mode of thinking I got a lot more out of the discussions because she said things (often the same things as the prior shrinks) in a way that resonated with my brain better. In that regard, therapy never fixed my problems, but it did help me recognize unhealthy thinking patterns and provide mechanisms for handling them, both of which have helped me avoid spirals and getting trapped in negative thought processes.
leetrout 3y ago
I noticed something similar (see also: my comment about using magnesium and getting better sleep on the thread about deep sleep yesterday). When I get ~5ish hours of sleep one night a week I am surprisingly more alert the next day but I also crash much harder by night. I cannot sustain multiple days of little sleep but one short night doesn't seem to have such a detrimental effect.
- manvillej 3y ago
  I wonder if this is why ADHD people struggle with sleep.
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    We have many reasons aha. Always good to start chipping away at the list ;)
- pstadler 3y ago
  One of my teachers told us to make sure we’re getting a good amount of sleep two nights before an important event (exam, job interview, competition, you name it). One can easily cope with a single sleepless night, but not with two in a row.
danielvaughn 3y ago
There's something about getting 2-3 hours of sleep that makes me feel like I'm on top of the world throughout the day. I've always assumed it was a kind of wild delirium.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  The sleep quality is super lossless and actually gainful when you compress it by allowing a slight sleep debt to accrue
  - dgb23 3y ago
    Are you claiming that 2-3h of sleep is enough or healthy?
    - Obscurity4340 3y ago
      Why don't you try it and see? Some of my best sleeps were after a sleepless night and for only like 1-3 hours, caffeine or other stimulants in the blood be damned Edit: also make sure you have bright blue light during wakeup/morning/day and mellow non-overhead orangey/amber/yellow light (nothing east of yellow) at evening/night. Red 2 hours before bedtime for bonus "points"
      - LeafItAlone 3y ago
        My experience does not match up with yours here. Given work deadlines I have a lot of experience with full all-nighters and 1-3 hour nights.
        Obscurity4340 3y ago
        Can you comment on sleep hygiene and the stuff i mentioned about light? Do you sleep in complete darkness in a slightly cooler ambient setting and really get a lot of bright line first thing at waketime?
      - 3y ago
wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
I don’t know. Seems very correlated with people having a good reason to pull an all nighter. Whether kids or business. Meaning makes us tick
- fellowniusmonk 3y ago
  Yeah, meaning is great, or you know, having something exciting or enjoyable to look forward to... but also, I used to heavily experience this type of emotional lift from lack of sleep but when I started taking Beta Blockers a decade ago the benefit stopped overnight never to return. Adrenaline and the bodies "stress" responses really are a wonder drug, you have to completely reconfigure your life and processes when it goes away.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Yeah I feel like this is probably a big part of it. Nothing does away with my depressive existential dread better than just having any kind of work to do, be it working on a personal skill or employment related work.
- culi 3y ago
  It's an experimental study not an observational study. So that correlation won't have an effect here
  - wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
    Not so sure; the whole article is about people having a reason to pull an all nighter. Students mostly. That’s intense motivation breaking a stereotype, recipe for a high
    - culi 3y ago
      ... it's a mouse study

fsloth 3y ago

I went several years more or less depressed and observed this phenomenon and utilized it. Night of Kerbal Space Program and next day the world is much better. For a while. Also, a lot fuzzier. And I couldn't code very well (just good enough to do my job so everyone was happy but I could feel slipping). Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. But, for sure in a pinch it does alleviate unbearable darkness. The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot - especially when entering middle age, when you (or I at least) can't shrug off sleep debt as easily. The interesting thing is that this apparently was not well known during my therapy. I discussed this effect with my therapist, and she was skeptical and non-plussed. No hard feelings there, I'm super pleased she was robustly evidence based. But very happy to read these results in any case to validate my personal discovery.

romwell 3y ago
Seconding everything you wrote. Emphasizing: - "The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot" - "Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end" Still resort to this sometimes when I'm not on a schedule (i.e. between jobs).
harimau777 3y ago
> Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. How did you find that therapy helped you? I've started therapy a few months back and so far I can't find all that much value in it. They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, so it mostly feels like I'm mainly getting self help style advice.
- Hard_Space 3y ago
  I've been in therapy over six years, and also did it for a shorter spell in the early 1990s. A few months is really the start of the relationship - it usually takes that long for most people to establish trust with their therapist. That doesn't mean you have the right therapist, but it is hard to know this early on.
- runlaszlorun 3y ago
  That’s my experience as well- though my therapy was a while ago. I had worked a stretch of utterly miserable jobs back then and conversation would always drift back to the work mess I likely left just prior and only frustrate me more. I saw several, mostly because I’d be on different insurance plans, etc. But not once did anyone say “maybe you need a new career path?” If anyone of them had followed that up with “and since procrastination is a problem why don’t we work on helping you get there”, I’d be singing the praises of the field. I’m not hating on the profession or anything and I have friends who swear by it. But each of them, after a bunch of these sessions I could almost see a hint in their eyes of “damnit… none of this crap is working.” Like I slightly felt bad for them in a way. Slightly. And honestly, given the trajectory of the world, I’d be more concerned if many people weren’t depressed. Out of the field, personally I did like Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), but it mostly reinforced what I’d learned from a decade of meditation and my buddhist practice.
  - pr0zac 3y ago
    While I def got more from therapy, I concur regarding ACT being the methodology that worked best for me and that it’s wild how much it overlaps with mindfulness and Buddhist practices.
- pr0zac 3y ago
  You might not have a good fit with your therapist. It took me a few tries but once I found someone with a similar mode of thinking I got a lot more out of the discussions because she said things (often the same things as the prior shrinks) in a way that resonated with my brain better. In that regard, therapy never fixed my problems, but it did help me recognize unhealthy thinking patterns and provide mechanisms for handling them, both of which have helped me avoid spirals and getting trapped in negative thought processes.

leetrout 3y ago

I noticed something similar (see also: my comment about using magnesium and getting better sleep on the thread about deep sleep yesterday). When I get ~5ish hours of sleep one night a week I am surprisingly more alert the next day but I also crash much harder by night. I cannot sustain multiple days of little sleep but one short night doesn't seem to have such a detrimental effect.

manvillej 3y ago
I wonder if this is why ADHD people struggle with sleep.
- Obscurity4340 3y ago
  We have many reasons aha. Always good to start chipping away at the list ;)
pstadler 3y ago
One of my teachers told us to make sure we’re getting a good amount of sleep two nights before an important event (exam, job interview, competition, you name it). One can easily cope with a single sleepless night, but not with two in a row.

danielvaughn 3y ago

There's something about getting 2-3 hours of sleep that makes me feel like I'm on top of the world throughout the day. I've always assumed it was a kind of wild delirium.

Obscurity4340 3y ago
The sleep quality is super lossless and actually gainful when you compress it by allowing a slight sleep debt to accrue
- dgb23 3y ago
  Are you claiming that 2-3h of sleep is enough or healthy?
  - Obscurity4340 3y ago
    Why don't you try it and see? Some of my best sleeps were after a sleepless night and for only like 1-3 hours, caffeine or other stimulants in the blood be damned Edit: also make sure you have bright blue light during wakeup/morning/day and mellow non-overhead orangey/amber/yellow light (nothing east of yellow) at evening/night. Red 2 hours before bedtime for bonus "points"
    - LeafItAlone 3y ago
      My experience does not match up with yours here. Given work deadlines I have a lot of experience with full all-nighters and 1-3 hour nights.
      - Obscurity4340 3y ago
        Can you comment on sleep hygiene and the stuff i mentioned about light? Do you sleep in complete darkness in a slightly cooler ambient setting and really get a lot of bright line first thing at waketime?
    - 3y ago

wouldbecouldbe 3y ago

I don’t know. Seems very correlated with people having a good reason to pull an all nighter. Whether kids or business. Meaning makes us tick

fellowniusmonk 3y ago
Yeah, meaning is great, or you know, having something exciting or enjoyable to look forward to... but also, I used to heavily experience this type of emotional lift from lack of sleep but when I started taking Beta Blockers a decade ago the benefit stopped overnight never to return. Adrenaline and the bodies "stress" responses really are a wonder drug, you have to completely reconfigure your life and processes when it goes away.
dotnet00 3y ago
Yeah I feel like this is probably a big part of it. Nothing does away with my depressive existential dread better than just having any kind of work to do, be it working on a personal skill or employment related work.
culi 3y ago
It's an experimental study not an observational study. So that correlation won't have an effect here
- wouldbecouldbe 3y ago
  Not so sure; the whole article is about people having a reason to pull an all nighter. Students mostly. That’s intense motivation breaking a stereotype, recipe for a high
  - culi 3y ago
    ... it's a mouse study