5 ms·

As someone who rented in Arlington in the 2010s, anecdotally this sounds 100% accurate. Early on I was able to negotiate lower lease renewal agreements than th

As someone who rented in Arlington in the 2010s, anecdotally this sounds 100% accurate. Early on I was able to negotiate lower lease renewal agreements than the apartment building's first offer. But at some point the management company started using some "software" to come up with "market rents" and the employees were reportedly "forbidden" from charging some other amount. Negotiation completely stopped and all offers became take-it-or-leave-it based on their software.

chung8123 3y ago
That doesn't mean there was collusion though. In most places employees cannot change the price of something and we wouldn't consider that collusion.
- rozap 3y ago
  In and of itself, no. But this case goes deeper than that. There were repurcussions if lessors deviated from the price mandate. That's just a cartel, plain and simple.
  - kaibee 3y ago
    Repercussions for who? The employee in charge of pricing or the real estate company?
    - flutas 3y ago
      The apartment complex management. RealPage required 80% acceptance minimum of their pricing quotes. They required written reasoning and approval from someone at RealPage to change the price of a unit. If you went under 80% they kicked you from the program.
flutas 3y ago
Yup. Applied for an apartment and was accepted. Before signing my lease rent in all the other units were lower by $300-400. Asked about it and well... "The computer sets the prices, we can't change that. We can move you to a different unit though." Suddenly the unit I applied for is back on the site at the new lower price... This was at a complex that proudly had the realpage logo on their homepage. Renewal offer was $600 more after a year (~25% increase). They wanted to ask me why I was moving out... I pointed out my car had been vandalized twice and they shrugged. I did this a few times with various things (gunshots, water pouring on my head during an interview..., my water heater blowing up and them keeping me waiting for 2 days on a replacement) and they basically shrugged off everything and kept insinuating that they would be withholding my security deposit no matter what. Final thing I mentioned was the original RealPage lawsuit... suddenly they want me out the door asap and promises of my entire deposit back...
paxys 3y ago
Exact same experience in New York. I toured a building which had dozens of units sitting empty. I found one I liked and tried to negotiate, because the asking price was too high, and the leasing agent simply went "sorry the numbers come out of our software and I'm not allowed to charge any less". The whole "efficient markets" theory goes for a toss when large corporate landlords representing a disproportionate share of the market are all able and willing to just sit on empty units and take temporary losses while prices steadily go up.
- tempsy 3y ago
  What share of apartments in NYC are actually managed by corporate landlords? It actually seems like one of those markets where they are the minority.
  - jpalawaga 3y ago
    I wouldn't be so sure. I lived in an old pre-war building that was owned (and changed ownership between) property management/private equity companies. If anything, the large buildings in nyc call for corporate landowners instead of every day people renting second homes.
    - tempsy 3y ago
      That’s not the same as say renting an Avalon apartment. When I think corporate manager I think of the publicly traded rental companies like Avalon and Equity Residential.
      - UncleMeat 3y ago
        Why is this meaningfully different? In both cases you are dealing with a corporation. In both cases that corporation is using whatever software to set rents. The inflection point is between "I can work with my landlord as an individual person" and "there is some fucking management company sitting between me and any sort of thing I need to get done." That inflection point is long before you have 10,000 doors.
notyourwork 3y ago
Checking in from Seattle. Similar experience over the last 8 years where flexibility continued to be decreased.
bigtex88 3y ago
Went through this exact same process recently with our apartment building. I went down with the intent to negotiate on price / months in our next lease and we were told there was no room to negotiate on anything. I think we maybe received a free month of parking. It's awful.
- cudgy 3y ago
  Meanwhile, there is some hope. In some areas of the country (like Texas, Florida, Georgia and Arizona), brand new apartment complexes are now offering 2 months free rent on 12 month leases.

chung8123 3y ago

That doesn't mean there was collusion though. In most places employees cannot change the price of something and we wouldn't consider that collusion.

rozap 3y ago
In and of itself, no. But this case goes deeper than that. There were repurcussions if lessors deviated from the price mandate. That's just a cartel, plain and simple.
- kaibee 3y ago
  Repercussions for who? The employee in charge of pricing or the real estate company?
  - flutas 3y ago
    The apartment complex management. RealPage required 80% acceptance minimum of their pricing quotes. They required written reasoning and approval from someone at RealPage to change the price of a unit. If you went under 80% they kicked you from the program.

flutas 3y ago

Yup. Applied for an apartment and was accepted. Before signing my lease rent in all the other units were lower by $300-400. Asked about it and well... "The computer sets the prices, we can't change that. We can move you to a different unit though." Suddenly the unit I applied for is back on the site at the new lower price... This was at a complex that proudly had the realpage logo on their homepage. Renewal offer was $600 more after a year (~25% increase). They wanted to ask me why I was moving out... I pointed out my car had been vandalized twice and they shrugged. I did this a few times with various things (gunshots, water pouring on my head during an interview..., my water heater blowing up and them keeping me waiting for 2 days on a replacement) and they basically shrugged off everything and kept insinuating that they would be withholding my security deposit no matter what. Final thing I mentioned was the original RealPage lawsuit... suddenly they want me out the door asap and promises of my entire deposit back...

paxys 3y ago

Exact same experience in New York. I toured a building which had dozens of units sitting empty. I found one I liked and tried to negotiate, because the asking price was too high, and the leasing agent simply went "sorry the numbers come out of our software and I'm not allowed to charge any less". The whole "efficient markets" theory goes for a toss when large corporate landlords representing a disproportionate share of the market are all able and willing to just sit on empty units and take temporary losses while prices steadily go up.

tempsy 3y ago
What share of apartments in NYC are actually managed by corporate landlords? It actually seems like one of those markets where they are the minority.
- jpalawaga 3y ago
  I wouldn't be so sure. I lived in an old pre-war building that was owned (and changed ownership between) property management/private equity companies. If anything, the large buildings in nyc call for corporate landowners instead of every day people renting second homes.
  - tempsy 3y ago
    That’s not the same as say renting an Avalon apartment. When I think corporate manager I think of the publicly traded rental companies like Avalon and Equity Residential.
    - UncleMeat 3y ago
      Why is this meaningfully different? In both cases you are dealing with a corporation. In both cases that corporation is using whatever software to set rents. The inflection point is between "I can work with my landlord as an individual person" and "there is some fucking management company sitting between me and any sort of thing I need to get done." That inflection point is long before you have 10,000 doors.

notyourwork 3y ago

Checking in from Seattle. Similar experience over the last 8 years where flexibility continued to be decreased.

bigtex88 3y ago

Went through this exact same process recently with our apartment building. I went down with the intent to negotiate on price / months in our next lease and we were told there was no room to negotiate on anything. I think we maybe received a free month of parking. It's awful.

cudgy 3y ago
Meanwhile, there is some hope. In some areas of the country (like Texas, Florida, Georgia and Arizona), brand new apartment complexes are now offering 2 months free rent on 12 month leases.