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The worrying thing I see among people supporting the Palestinian cause is that they inadvertently support the Hamas due to conflation of causes. E.g. a recent d

The worrying thing I see among people supporting the Palestinian cause is that they inadvertently support the Hamas due to conflation of causes. E.g. a recent demonstration in New York shouted Palestine from River to Sea. That essentially means the elimination of the state of Israel. Also there's a lot of calls against the war with Hamas. I can understand the desire to tone down the violence. But the Hamas must be destroyed for the benefit of all sides. Unfortunately, children I know who go onto tiktok do come back feeling that the entire world hates Israel. There's a lot of misinformation going on there.

throw310822 3y ago
You know that Likud's (Netanyahu's party) platform says: "The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable ... between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."? Besides that, it's a slogan, good for protests. I chanted it myself, and I'm absolutely for a two-state solution.
- zeroCalories 3y ago
  You know the origin of the slogan is Palestinian? It's not some parody of Israeli nationalism. You might support a two state solution, but you're rubbing shoulders with people that want to cleanse the land jews.
  - throw310822 3y ago
    If your reasoning holds and is relevant, it means that those who side with Israel are "rubbing shoulders with people that want to cleanse the land of the Palestinians". It's right in what you said, plus those people happen to be at the government, have a proper army, have the latest US-made weapons and jet fighters, not to mention nuclear weapons. So my point is: I think a very small minority of those who protest in favour of Palestine want to actually do what you claim; and even that minority doesn't have anywhere near the means of doing it. While on the other side, not only there is a majority (they have been democratically elected, after all!) that wants the same, but have all the means of doing it and they are doing it right now.
    - zeroCalories 3y ago
      They are not doing it. If Israel wanted to they could do far worse. They've killed an order of magnitude fewer people than they've dropped bombs because their main goal is to destroy Hamas infrastructure, not kill civilians. So no, Israel and Hamas' are not equivalent, despite whatever far-right politician's quote you bring up. Israel is far better morally, and in terms of real actions. Hamas are the ones that deliberately increase civilian deaths, and have reiterated from their inception, to yesterday, that their goal is to kill every jew. And no, your little slogan isn't cute when 51% of idiotic zoomers think what Hamas did is justified. It's less cute when you look at how Palestinians think about it. It's even less cute when you look at how every other Arab country in the region feels about it. We know from history how Arabs massacre their local jews every time they get embarrassed by Israel. There's no reason to think they're not serious in Palestine.
- invalidname 3y ago
  The Likud is terrible. Notice that Netnyahu pretended to be for a two state solution in the past but used the Hamas to block that from ever happening. But other parties did offer a Palestinian state which was rejected by the PLO and sabotaged by the Hamas. The Likud was more moderate for a long while, it removed settlements from Gaza and signed the peace treaty with Egypt giving them back territory the size of the entire country (which has oil reserves). > I chanted it myself, and I'm absolutely for a two-state solution. It's terrible when the Likud chant it. It's worse when Palestinians do it as I think Jews would fare far worse in a Palestinian controlled state than the inverse ever was.
- johnnyworker 3y ago
  As far as slogans go, I like "freedom and equality, from the river to the sea". It flows better, it's not something the people who genuinely want to wipe out Israel can get as excited about, and the Israeli right-wing extremists would also hate the application of it. Win/win/win.

throw310822 3y ago

You know that Likud's (Netanyahu's party) platform says: "The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable ... between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."? Besides that, it's a slogan, good for protests. I chanted it myself, and I'm absolutely for a two-state solution.

zeroCalories 3y ago
You know the origin of the slogan is Palestinian? It's not some parody of Israeli nationalism. You might support a two state solution, but you're rubbing shoulders with people that want to cleanse the land jews.
- throw310822 3y ago
  If your reasoning holds and is relevant, it means that those who side with Israel are "rubbing shoulders with people that want to cleanse the land of the Palestinians". It's right in what you said, plus those people happen to be at the government, have a proper army, have the latest US-made weapons and jet fighters, not to mention nuclear weapons. So my point is: I think a very small minority of those who protest in favour of Palestine want to actually do what you claim; and even that minority doesn't have anywhere near the means of doing it. While on the other side, not only there is a majority (they have been democratically elected, after all!) that wants the same, but have all the means of doing it and they are doing it right now.
  - zeroCalories 3y ago
    They are not doing it. If Israel wanted to they could do far worse. They've killed an order of magnitude fewer people than they've dropped bombs because their main goal is to destroy Hamas infrastructure, not kill civilians. So no, Israel and Hamas' are not equivalent, despite whatever far-right politician's quote you bring up. Israel is far better morally, and in terms of real actions. Hamas are the ones that deliberately increase civilian deaths, and have reiterated from their inception, to yesterday, that their goal is to kill every jew. And no, your little slogan isn't cute when 51% of idiotic zoomers think what Hamas did is justified. It's less cute when you look at how Palestinians think about it. It's even less cute when you look at how every other Arab country in the region feels about it. We know from history how Arabs massacre their local jews every time they get embarrassed by Israel. There's no reason to think they're not serious in Palestine.
invalidname 3y ago
The Likud is terrible. Notice that Netnyahu pretended to be for a two state solution in the past but used the Hamas to block that from ever happening. But other parties did offer a Palestinian state which was rejected by the PLO and sabotaged by the Hamas. The Likud was more moderate for a long while, it removed settlements from Gaza and signed the peace treaty with Egypt giving them back territory the size of the entire country (which has oil reserves). > I chanted it myself, and I'm absolutely for a two-state solution. It's terrible when the Likud chant it. It's worse when Palestinians do it as I think Jews would fare far worse in a Palestinian controlled state than the inverse ever was.
johnnyworker 3y ago
As far as slogans go, I like "freedom and equality, from the river to the sea". It flows better, it's not something the people who genuinely want to wipe out Israel can get as excited about, and the Israeli right-wing extremists would also hate the application of it. Win/win/win.