6 ms·

I am confident that I'm in good company when I say that I hit this sort of paragraph like a brick wall: > Do not drink any calories (no soda, no alcohol, no ju

I am confident that I'm in good company when I say that I hit this sort of paragraph like a brick wall: > Do not drink any calories (no soda, no alcohol, no juices, avoid milk). Avoid sugar like the plague, including carbohydrate-heavy foods that immediately break down to sugar (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes), including to a lesser extent natural sugar (apples, bananas, pears, etc - we’ve “weaponized” these fruits in the last few hundred years via strong artificial selection into actual candy bars), berries are ~okay. Avoid processed food. Look, I have nothing but respect for people who can read that and think, oh, cool, I hate everything that tastes good, is easy to access and leaves me feeling satisfied. For those of us who are still yoked in service to evil things like rice, this paragraph just makes us feel like we're fucked. Also: even introverts who love cooking at home occasionally have to go for dinner with clients, relatives or friends. While it's true that you can just order some naked bitter greens, this often doesn't feel like a socially normal thing to do (even though norms are changing, especially in large and progressive cities).

Crystalin 3y ago
It is surprisingly easy from a "feeling" perspective. Once you stop eating those, your body will become more addicted to other food. However, a single drop of sugar during your diet will make you starve for more sugar (That is what most people experience during their day and why they think avoiding soda is impossible)
eddtries 3y ago
I agree this sucks and I personally struggle to follow anything this strict because I love cooking AND I love eating (the perfect storm for obesity, sadly). However I found a good middle ground is to focus on "Avoid processed food" and sticking to whole foods. Try buy things that don't have bar codes, or stick to the outside of the supermarket (where they tend to put the fresh produce), or whatever.
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  This is my strategy also. Do your shopping in the produce, butcher, and dairy sections. Stay away from the boxed crap in the middle, and at least for me the bakery section will likely be my eventual downfall. Of course this requires that you learn to cook, and have the time to do it. If you are going to restaurants all the time it’s a lot harder.
  - eddtries 3y ago
    > Of course this requires that you learn to cook, and have the time to do it. True, although personally I think cooking is one of life's greatest joys! Making things from scratch that taste good and make people (i.e. your family) happy is worth the time, imo, and I try to do a couple good meals a week :)
jb1991 3y ago
I find rice to be a curious thing to put on the list. I understand that it is a carb, but it’s also a question of moderation, and portion size. Prior to the introduction of western franchises like McDonald’s, the Japanese diet led to some of the longest lifespan’s in the world. A small quantity of carbs like rice seems like a non-issue to me. It’s when you sit down to a massive plate of fried rice that you’re asking for trouble.
keiferski 3y ago
The thing I find odd about many of these biohacking/longevity experts is that they don’t seem to look at real people that live a long time in Spain, Italy, Japan, etc. and instead just default to an over-optimized “scientific” diet that insists that over-analyzing everything is equivalent to being effective. If there isn’t a name for this fallacy, there ought to be one: analysis and results are not always correlated. Edit: reading the linked post again, I realized what it is: an obsession with data and a total disregard for cultural practices. French people, for example, eat all kinds of things considered forbidden, and yet obesity isn’t much of an issue there compared to other Western nations. One reason why is the strong cultural rule against snacking.
- raverbashing 3y ago
  And in the end, let me guess, 95% of the results are just from not eating your average processed foods, that are filled with HFCS, etc Carbs are not the enemy. "Bread" high in HFCS and preservatives is though
- abirch 3y ago
  It's not quite the "it works in practice but does it work in theory" mindset but it seems related. Also with French food, the food can be decadent but with the proper portions size. Quality over quantity.
- fortydegrees 3y ago
  >they don’t seem to look at real people that live a long time in Spain, Italy, Japan, etc I think you're referring to 'Blue zones'[0] here. I'm certainly not an expert in longevity, but was also intrigued by these areas and their apparently above-average lifespan, and how it goes against a lot of conventional longevity advice re: diet. One explanation I've heard is that they're simply the results of poor record keeping, and that there isn't much strong evidence to suggest people in those regions do statistically live longer than average. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone
  - tpush 3y ago
    > [...] and how it goes against a lot of conventional longevity advice re: diet. Why do you think it goes against "conventional longevity advice"?
indigo945 3y ago
Well, rice is also among the most environmentally damaging plants you can eat, so I suppose there's multiple arguments to be made in favor of avoiding it. Cutting drinkable calories and all added sugars is the 20% of effort that gives you 80% of the effect here. As far as going to 100% goes, cutting carbohydrates altogether has also become enough of a trend ("no-carb") that you can find lots of information on how to do it, if you feel like you need to do it. However, those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat, which is unhealthy for a host of other reasons, and if you're stringent about it, they would also require you to cut beneficial foods like nuts, which is likewise bad.
- peteforde 3y ago
  I appreciate this reply as thoughtful and reasonable, with the powerful exception being the inclusion of "all added sugars". I think we all get that if you can cut drinkable calories, you should because you will be far better off. However, ditching sugar (which is an addictive poison; we get it) is the most decisively non-trivial thing on the list. It's in freaking everything. Trust me, I can give up apples and pears tomorrow if you promise to say nice things about me. But pursuing a completely sugar-free diet is a dramatic undertaking. It requires you to drastically alter everything you probably eat.
  - indigo945 3y ago
    This may be different in the US, where, from my understand, people often eat sweetened breads and so on, but at least here in Europe, added sugars are really not that hard to avoid. (Well, at least to a 99% level. For me, cutting soy sauce, which does contain added sugar, would be very uncomfortable. Other than that, I honestly don't see the huge issue - of course it would be annoying when eating out, but that's about it.)
- sfjailbird 3y ago
  > those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat You can substitute meat for eggs, to a large extent. No more expensive, easy to prepare, arguably tasty, ethical (as far as OP's arguments), and a complete protein source that rivals meat. Traditional diet advice would caution about cholesterol, but "those diets" pretty much disregard those concerns, with pretty good science behind it.
itake 3y ago
My brain shutdowns when I read “processed food”. That is a made up term that means nothing and everything. Washing vegetables is a process. “Cooking” is a process. Cutting is a process. Chilling is a process. What the heck do they mean by “processed food”?
- peteforde 3y ago
  Processed food refers to items that have been altered from their natural state for safety reasons or convenience. This can range from simple processes like freezing or drying to preserve nutrients and prevent spoilage, to more complex changes such as adding preservatives, flavors, and other additives to enhance taste, texture, and shelf life. Canning, baking, and pasteurizing are also common methods of processing. While processing can make food more accessible and longer-lasting, some argue it can also reduce nutritional value and introduce less healthy elements like added sugar and sodium.
  - itake 3y ago
    No rice, no flour, no fish, no meat. Basically everything in a grocery store has been processed to prevent spoilage.
- sfjailbird 3y ago
  Industrial processing. Not the kind you do in your kitchen.
  - itake 3y ago
    What is the difference between me making bread in my kitchen vs in a bakery?
    - snapcaster 3y ago
      Look at the ingredients list. This is such a weird hill engineers always want to die on. "Processed" is very clear on what it means to anyone that isn't being pedantic
liampulles 3y ago
I struggle with my weight, but it made a big difference to cut out "direct" sugar. It was hard for a month or two but after that, I don't really have a strong desire for sugar anymore, and a lot of more "normal" food tastes sweeter to me now.
GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
I think it's a very natural American reaction. Of course if your food supply is full of preservatives and fillers, you'll find it difficult to eat food that doesn't make you fat or feel like shit. I've been living in the EU (Netherlands) for a few years now, and I've lost weight naturally through walking more, better food, and less access to fast food. My wife and I love cooking, and love eating too. It's legitimately hard to find quality produce in the US, and it's often substantially more expensive than produce in the EU. I actually dread going back to the US to visit family or when I have to travel for work because the food really irritates my stomach...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
agumonkey 3y ago
Not contradicting, but your brain is reprogrammable. If you cut things a bit, you won't feel the need to be satisfied. The amount of sugar we eat in modern societies is mostly useless. Now I was "lucky", I fell ill, so I just couldn't eat sugar, now I don't eat pastry, or carbs (maybe 3 times a month at worst). Veggies, tea, meat, fish, nuts, yogurt, can give you a lot.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thaumaturgy 3y ago
For what it's worth, my personal experience has been that I crave less of the hyper-palatable foods when I'm regularly lifting or getting some other form of moderate to intense exercise. My appetite starts to swing back towards simple meals with meat and grains and vegetables, and plain water is refreshing again. When I'm not getting enough exercise, I start to crave sugars and yummies more. I've gotten almost no exercise for the last couple of months due to an injury and some other circumstances and Halloween could not have come at a worse time.

Crystalin 3y ago

It is surprisingly easy from a "feeling" perspective. Once you stop eating those, your body will become more addicted to other food. However, a single drop of sugar during your diet will make you starve for more sugar (That is what most people experience during their day and why they think avoiding soda is impossible)

eddtries 3y ago

I agree this sucks and I personally struggle to follow anything this strict because I love cooking AND I love eating (the perfect storm for obesity, sadly). However I found a good middle ground is to focus on "Avoid processed food" and sticking to whole foods. Try buy things that don't have bar codes, or stick to the outside of the supermarket (where they tend to put the fresh produce), or whatever.

amanaplanacanal 3y ago
This is my strategy also. Do your shopping in the produce, butcher, and dairy sections. Stay away from the boxed crap in the middle, and at least for me the bakery section will likely be my eventual downfall. Of course this requires that you learn to cook, and have the time to do it. If you are going to restaurants all the time it’s a lot harder.
- eddtries 3y ago
  > Of course this requires that you learn to cook, and have the time to do it. True, although personally I think cooking is one of life's greatest joys! Making things from scratch that taste good and make people (i.e. your family) happy is worth the time, imo, and I try to do a couple good meals a week :)

jb1991 3y ago

I find rice to be a curious thing to put on the list. I understand that it is a carb, but it’s also a question of moderation, and portion size. Prior to the introduction of western franchises like McDonald’s, the Japanese diet led to some of the longest lifespan’s in the world. A small quantity of carbs like rice seems like a non-issue to me. It’s when you sit down to a massive plate of fried rice that you’re asking for trouble.

keiferski 3y ago

The thing I find odd about many of these biohacking/longevity experts is that they don’t seem to look at real people that live a long time in Spain, Italy, Japan, etc. and instead just default to an over-optimized “scientific” diet that insists that over-analyzing everything is equivalent to being effective. If there isn’t a name for this fallacy, there ought to be one: analysis and results are not always correlated. Edit: reading the linked post again, I realized what it is: an obsession with data and a total disregard for cultural practices. French people, for example, eat all kinds of things considered forbidden, and yet obesity isn’t much of an issue there compared to other Western nations. One reason why is the strong cultural rule against snacking.

raverbashing 3y ago
And in the end, let me guess, 95% of the results are just from not eating your average processed foods, that are filled with HFCS, etc Carbs are not the enemy. "Bread" high in HFCS and preservatives is though
abirch 3y ago
It's not quite the "it works in practice but does it work in theory" mindset but it seems related. Also with French food, the food can be decadent but with the proper portions size. Quality over quantity.
fortydegrees 3y ago
>they don’t seem to look at real people that live a long time in Spain, Italy, Japan, etc I think you're referring to 'Blue zones'[0] here. I'm certainly not an expert in longevity, but was also intrigued by these areas and their apparently above-average lifespan, and how it goes against a lot of conventional longevity advice re: diet. One explanation I've heard is that they're simply the results of poor record keeping, and that there isn't much strong evidence to suggest people in those regions do statistically live longer than average. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_zone
- tpush 3y ago
  > [...] and how it goes against a lot of conventional longevity advice re: diet. Why do you think it goes against "conventional longevity advice"?

indigo945 3y ago

Well, rice is also among the most environmentally damaging plants you can eat, so I suppose there's multiple arguments to be made in favor of avoiding it. Cutting drinkable calories and all added sugars is the 20% of effort that gives you 80% of the effect here. As far as going to 100% goes, cutting carbohydrates altogether has also become enough of a trend ("no-carb") that you can find lots of information on how to do it, if you feel like you need to do it. However, those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat, which is unhealthy for a host of other reasons, and if you're stringent about it, they would also require you to cut beneficial foods like nuts, which is likewise bad.

peteforde 3y ago
I appreciate this reply as thoughtful and reasonable, with the powerful exception being the inclusion of "all added sugars". I think we all get that if you can cut drinkable calories, you should because you will be far better off. However, ditching sugar (which is an addictive poison; we get it) is the most decisively non-trivial thing on the list. It's in freaking everything. Trust me, I can give up apples and pears tomorrow if you promise to say nice things about me. But pursuing a completely sugar-free diet is a dramatic undertaking. It requires you to drastically alter everything you probably eat.
- indigo945 3y ago
  This may be different in the US, where, from my understand, people often eat sweetened breads and so on, but at least here in Europe, added sugars are really not that hard to avoid. (Well, at least to a 99% level. For me, cutting soy sauce, which does contain added sugar, would be very uncomfortable. Other than that, I honestly don't see the huge issue - of course it would be annoying when eating out, but that's about it.)
sfjailbird 3y ago
> those diets usually require you to eat a lot of meat You can substitute meat for eggs, to a large extent. No more expensive, easy to prepare, arguably tasty, ethical (as far as OP's arguments), and a complete protein source that rivals meat. Traditional diet advice would caution about cholesterol, but "those diets" pretty much disregard those concerns, with pretty good science behind it.

itake 3y ago

My brain shutdowns when I read “processed food”. That is a made up term that means nothing and everything. Washing vegetables is a process. “Cooking” is a process. Cutting is a process. Chilling is a process. What the heck do they mean by “processed food”?

peteforde 3y ago
Processed food refers to items that have been altered from their natural state for safety reasons or convenience. This can range from simple processes like freezing or drying to preserve nutrients and prevent spoilage, to more complex changes such as adding preservatives, flavors, and other additives to enhance taste, texture, and shelf life. Canning, baking, and pasteurizing are also common methods of processing. While processing can make food more accessible and longer-lasting, some argue it can also reduce nutritional value and introduce less healthy elements like added sugar and sodium.
- itake 3y ago
  No rice, no flour, no fish, no meat. Basically everything in a grocery store has been processed to prevent spoilage.
sfjailbird 3y ago
Industrial processing. Not the kind you do in your kitchen.
- itake 3y ago
  What is the difference between me making bread in my kitchen vs in a bakery?
  - snapcaster 3y ago
    Look at the ingredients list. This is such a weird hill engineers always want to die on. "Processed" is very clear on what it means to anyone that isn't being pedantic

liampulles 3y ago

I struggle with my weight, but it made a big difference to cut out "direct" sugar. It was hard for a month or two but after that, I don't really have a strong desire for sugar anymore, and a lot of more "normal" food tastes sweeter to me now.

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago

I think it's a very natural American reaction. Of course if your food supply is full of preservatives and fillers, you'll find it difficult to eat food that doesn't make you fat or feel like shit. I've been living in the EU (Netherlands) for a few years now, and I've lost weight naturally through walking more, better food, and less access to fast food. My wife and I love cooking, and love eating too. It's legitimately hard to find quality produce in the US, and it's often substantially more expensive than produce in the EU. I actually dread going back to the US to visit family or when I have to travel for work because the food really irritates my stomach...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

agumonkey 3y ago

Not contradicting, but your brain is reprogrammable. If you cut things a bit, you won't feel the need to be satisfied. The amount of sugar we eat in modern societies is mostly useless. Now I was "lucky", I fell ill, so I just couldn't eat sugar, now I don't eat pastry, or carbs (maybe 3 times a month at worst). Veggies, tea, meat, fish, nuts, yogurt, can give you a lot.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

thaumaturgy 3y ago

For what it's worth, my personal experience has been that I crave less of the hyper-palatable foods when I'm regularly lifting or getting some other form of moderate to intense exercise. My appetite starts to swing back towards simple meals with meat and grains and vegetables, and plain water is refreshing again. When I'm not getting enough exercise, I start to crave sugars and yummies more. I've gotten almost no exercise for the last couple of months due to an injury and some other circumstances and Halloween could not have come at a worse time.