3 ms·

I think you may have missed the point of my raising that fwiw. I genuinely don't care who is right [1]. Bjarne's attitude and manner is very wrong and very norm

by harry8 3y ago

I think you may have missed the point of my raising that fwiw. I genuinely don't care who is right [1]. Bjarne's attitude and manner is very wrong and very normal amongst c++ people. That's a shame. He could have explained his point of view forcefully, without being a jerk. Bjarne made his choice. Maybe it's why there have been so many terrible decisions in C++ over the years because being an asshole and right might scare off discussion but it doesn't make even Bjarne infallible. [1] If you care about performance you take full responsibility for all code used including all libraries like the stl, which might well mean you don't use the stl and vector and write something optimised for your specific purpose, and not for every possible purpose. But I don't want to be an ass about saying it.

lenkite 3y ago
For someone for whom English is a second language, what was wrong with his statement ? For a non-native English speaker it seems expressing disagreement is becoming more and more difficult and complex.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Indeed, the usual we need to talk like radio censorship on US.
  - harry8 3y ago
    Nothing Bjarne says would be censored on NPR. Being a jerk is totally allowed and should be. As is pointing it out.
- harry8 3y ago
  I can explain why I disagree with you. Or I can put you down for not already understanding and agreeing with my point before I do that.
angiosperm 3y ago
He is not a jerk. He explained his point clearly, concisely and respectfully, without wasting the time of the next person with a question. Making people into jerks because you don't like their answers, you find yourself surrounded by jerks. Then who's really the jerk? He explains, "People have not figured out how to automate picking data structures optimally relative to their use in a program". In other words, the guy asked for something impossible. Bjarne was as diplomatic as was possible while still answering the question accurately.
- harry8 3y ago
  "I think I understand what you are trying to say and I think that you are wrong." The giveaway is the hoots and razzes from the crowd. No word above needed saying. It clarified nothing. It is pure assholery. (And he may not have even intended it. Clearly lots of c++ people have no issue with just how unpleasant community interaction is compsred other communities. It's also pretty obvious that many do see it plainly).

by harry8 3y ago

lenkite 3y ago

For someone for whom English is a second language, what was wrong with his statement ? For a non-native English speaker it seems expressing disagreement is becoming more and more difficult and complex.

pjmlp 3y ago
Indeed, the usual we need to talk like radio censorship on US.
- harry8 3y ago
  Nothing Bjarne says would be censored on NPR. Being a jerk is totally allowed and should be. As is pointing it out.
harry8 3y ago
I can explain why I disagree with you. Or I can put you down for not already understanding and agreeing with my point before I do that.

angiosperm 3y ago

He is not a jerk. He explained his point clearly, concisely and respectfully, without wasting the time of the next person with a question. Making people into jerks because you don't like their answers, you find yourself surrounded by jerks. Then who's really the jerk? He explains, "People have not figured out how to automate picking data structures optimally relative to their use in a program". In other words, the guy asked for something impossible. Bjarne was as diplomatic as was possible while still answering the question accurately.

harry8 3y ago
"I think I understand what you are trying to say and I think that you are wrong." The giveaway is the hoots and razzes from the crowd. No word above needed saying. It clarified nothing. It is pure assholery. (And he may not have even intended it. Clearly lots of c++ people have no issue with just how unpleasant community interaction is compsred other communities. It's also pretty obvious that many do see it plainly).