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They can pry my 2005 Scion xB from my cold dead hands for this exact reason. Insanely light, manual shifter, manual everything, timing CHAIN, 30+ mpg, more inte

They can pry my 2005 Scion xB from my cold dead hands for this exact reason. Insanely light, manual shifter, manual everything, timing CHAIN, 30+ mpg, more internal space than a SUV, looks ridiculous. Check, check, and check. Mid nineties to mid aughts are the absolute high point for me, where you get all the technology but none of the heinous "you rent all your things" features that smear newer vehicles. The downside is dodging the mid-aughts quality hangover Honda seemed to have suffered in the period - really just fit and finish, but still annoying - and more importantly the long train of suck that was Hyundai Theta/Gamma family engines and derivatives. Hyundai reached a leeeetle too far in the late aughts, with some sci-fi internal combustion tricks, but oof, that was a hard pill after their fantastic Delta V6s.

downut 3y ago
They can't pry my 2001 v8 4wd 14mpg[1] Tundra bought new for cash from my cold dead hands because I am seriously thinking of when I die I get laid out in the bed and the whole shebang put in an enormous hole and buried somewhere. I'd prefer if it was hauled out by helicopter over the Pacific somewhere and oops dropped. 125K miles, 3rd suspension, zero problems, manual windows, door locks, seats mirrors, everything. The odometer seems to be digital. It even passes GA emissions now. [1] It was so... liberating when we started buying Priuses and I discovered I could drive them like race cars and get 44mpg more or less reliably. X-country + urban miles almost all go there. The current 2015 is so comfortably very dumb.
- MilStdJunkie 3y ago
  Nice. 2001 Tundra's a good candidate for "best pickup truck ever made". You might very well get 2x-3x new cost for it on the used market now, but there's absolutely nothing that replaces it, so that makes it a one-way cash thing. Your plan's better.
  - Mistletoe 3y ago
    My family has been passing our 2001 Tundra around for a very long time now after it retired from being the ranch truck. We call it Ed Truck the red truck. It has 363,000 miles now and I’m the current owner. The engine and whole truck is incredible. I think about how different it must have been made when I think about things like it still being on the original AC compressor and never needing even refrigerant after 363,000 miles and 22 years. Such a testament to the Toyota Way. All the buttons and controls still work, which is very much not the norm after owning many other cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way
    - downut 3y ago
      I had been admittedly a bit depressed before the big move across the country and the Tundra had been a bit neglected except for oil changes/tires etc. So after the life reset settled down Mr. Tundra got the full mechanics inspection with me ready to put in Whatever It Takes to make it ready for the next 20 years. And nope! Nothing mechanical needed fixing except for the timing chain. Rats had done their thing but that's just wires and money. I've got brake pads and a spare fan clutch stockpiled. Might replace more of the basic suspension bits if they become noticeable. Two things the mechanic told me that I found surprising is neither the AC nor the cooling system(!) needed maintenance after 22 years.
      - RecycledEle 3y ago
        > Whatever It Takes to make it ready for the next 20 years. And nope! Nothing mechanical needed fixing except for the timing chain. Rats had done their thing but that's just wires and money. Say you're rich without saying you're rich.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  125K miles (barely broken in for a Tundra) 3rd suspension??? How did that happen?
  - dieselgate 3y ago
    My thoughts as well, Maybe they were lifts or something
  - happytiger 3y ago
    Struts and shocks can last maybe 50-100k. If you’re beating the crap out of your truck you might be on the low end of that scale. Maybe that’s what they mean?
  - downut 3y ago
    20 years on the hard 4wd trails of AZ, CA, CO, NM and both MX BCN and Sonora. A couple of hundred miles on the Baja 1000 route with a bed full of camping gear did one suspension in. And there's a lift/helper leaf in there. Never once left us stranded.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Ah I see. Ok, that makes sense then.
- _fat_santa 3y ago
  I have an 2009 4Runner and while it's got more "bells and whistles" (power seats, power windows, power 2WD/4WD switcher), but it's still very much a "dumb" car compared to any relatively modern car with an infotainment system. I hope Toyota keeps making their cars as dumb as possible. The 4Runner had it's best sales year 10 years after it's redesign and I think that speaks to the market for "dumb" cars.
Baeocystin 3y ago
I have a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's new enough to have well-sorted fuel injection, good AC and heat, old enough to have zero tattletales, nags, and subscriptions. It has the best sightlines, is comfy and roomy on the inside, and frankly relatively compact compared to many of the behemoths on the road today. If it ever dies I'm really going to miss it!
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I had one of those and while it was a great car in the Canadian North I'd hate to drive in Europe with the gas prices here right now.
- thaumaturgy 3y ago
  2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee here. It gets driven hard so it has some problems, and everyone around me keeps pressuring me to get a new car. I've looked, and I've driven a pile of rentals, and everything is just so awful. I think 2010 is about the latest model year I'd ever go. So instead I'm getting a really sweet new motor built for mine. Still the same 4.0, but with updated components and a focus on improved efficiency. My target is 25mpg highway. ...and a little bit of hooning around the desert racing circuit maybe. :-) Even with a fancy motor (and transmission), it'll still be less money than a new replacement vehicle, and most importantly, it won't piss me off all the time. With already-upgraded suspension, steering, and some electronics, it's kinda fun and quite capable. The only thing I'm really missing is safety. Jeeps are pretty terrible at the moose test to begin with, and 2001 was too early for side curtain airbags. I think I can retrofit 2004 side curtain bags into mine, and I'm redistributing weight in the vehicle that, along with some of the newer electronic suspensions, should improve its highway handling.
drcongo 3y ago
I've been keeping an eye out for an imported Toyota bB (same car but Japanese domestic market) for my daughter, fantastic little cars.
- jonwest 3y ago
  I had one. It is the one car I’ve had that I truly miss. So many clever little features that made it an absolute joy to own and drive. Slow as absolute molasses, but still such a wonderful experience. So spacious for the size, with things like the rear seat adjusting so that you could have more storage area or more rear passenger legroom, which, holy crap, why was that not more widespread?! That car had significantly more legroom than _any_ “midsize” SUV on the market in 2023, certainly more than the Mazda CX50 we ended up getting, which I genuinely thought this article was about because all of the annoyances were ringing true.
UncleOxidant 3y ago
> They can pry my 2005 Scion xB from my cold dead hands for this exact reason. Insanely light, manual shifter, manual everything, timing CHAIN, 30+ mpg Same for my 1998 Honda Civic. It just keeps going&going. Cheap to fix when it breaks down. I'd say late 80s through the 90s were the high point for Honda. I just don't think there will ever be many cars that will be as good & reliable as Hondas from those years. They really set a high bar during that era.
- grogenaut 3y ago
  Early to mid 2000s are also good and the fit and finish was nicer. Have my mom's 08 tsx and it's still great
- redwall_hp 3y ago
  My 2007 Honda Fit has over 200K miles on it and I'm keeping it as long as I can. They discontinued it in the NA market too, unfortunately, even though there's a snazzy looking new model in Japan. I will inevitably end up with a Civic hatchback.
  - troyvit 3y ago
    We have one of these too! We call it GOAT (Greatest of All Time) because it just keeps going and going well. There was mention higher up of Hondas having trim issues around this year and yeah, the paint is faded, etc. but it is just unstoppable, and the manual shift is a joy.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Mine has fewer miles on it, but my hope is that it's like compact smartphones. Honda will keep it out of the North American market for a couple of years just to release one a few years later to pent up demand, just in time for me to get (and be able to afford) a new one. Another bit that gives me hope is that there's an EV version in Japan - Honda isn't on Toyota's hydrogen train.
- tlavoie 3y ago
  Still delighted with my '09 Civic Si. Has "enough" tech for me, nothing that gets too irritating, and is a blast to drive. It'll be a dark day when it goes...
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
'96 Mustang Cobra. You couldn't even buy it with an automatic. It doesn't ding about the seat belt, let alone any of this other bullshit. Pretty soon I won't have to deal with valets because none will know how to drive it. WIN. On a side note, one day I was driving along listening to a Cubs game on the radio when I realized I was hearing stereo... AM. Ford radios of that era were stereo-AM capable. Now they're getting rid of AM in cars altogether. Oh yeah, today I had to get a new tire and the guy at the shop reminded me of the most offensive regression in cars yet: NO SPARE TIRE. This should be illegal. Nobody should accept this.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-QUAM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-QUAM
- jfoutz 3y ago
  you know, it's weird. I have a Miata. It's not particularly fast, but it's fun to drive. Went on a bit of a road trip over the summer, and parking was tight at one place I stayed, so was valet only. They had to get a janitor to pull my car around the next day. I mean, it's a little unusual to need to push the stick down to go into reverse, but I guess it's like secret knowledge now days. I really love that car. Who knows how things'll go. I hope it'll outlast me.
  - ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
    And it's an actual sports car. People don't even know what that means anymore. And regular hatchbacks and station wagons are now "SUVs."
  - Klonoar 3y ago
    I've routinely had to have valets walk me to my car since nobody who's working that day can drive it. As a result, I've - more than a few times now - gotten the hotel to comp the parking since I end up doing the actual parking and retrieval myself.
  - jackjeff 3y ago
dclowd9901 3y ago
Mo tech mo problems. My 87 Toyota 4x4, 89 bmw e30, 83 Toyota Land Cruiser and 76 bmw e10 are an effortless joy to drive (for someone with a little mechanical acumen). I call upon you all: reclaim agency over your driving experience, learn how a carb works, drive a cool classic and cut bullshit tech out of your life (while not contributing to the throwaway culture lithium ion has brought us).
- bandyaboot 3y ago
  Bring back carbs and crank starts! I miss the days of getting a free buzz from the gas fumes when walking through a parking lot.
- TylerE 3y ago
  I know how all that works. I also know how modern cars are designed to survive collisions. You can keep 'em. I'd consider something like as a fun weekend car, but it's be relegated to rural backroads and track days.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    That reasoning hurts my head. "Those cars are dangerous. I'd like one, too, but only so I could drive it under conditions associated with the highest possible fatality rates per vehicle-mile."
    - TylerE 3y ago
      Huh? How is a rural road or parking lot with literally no other cars around "the highest possible fatality rate"? It's not ME that scares me. It's Sally Mae driving a 7 thousand pound Suburban while talking on the phone and putting on make up. She won't even notice anything smaller than a full size sedan.
      - serf 3y ago
        lack of response during an incident, poor road conditions, little or no flood control, rapidly changing road conditions over timne poor lighting, randomized rural traffic (tractors/goats/whatever), and inconsistent street placement. rural driving has always been historically pretty dangerous, even on an otherwise empty road.
jareklupinski 3y ago
the literal united states federal government had to step in to take my diesel golf away from me
mauvehaus 3y ago
To your list of highly desirable features, I'd add four wheel disc brakes. I was pretty over the moon when we sold off the last car in the household with drums on the rear. Drums are a pain in the ass. Maybe they're not too bad if you deal with them often enough, but discs are simpler by miles. ...And then we bought a '47 Willys Jeep a year later. Which has 4 wheel drums. And the worlds least conveniently located master cylinder.
- wigglewoggle 3y ago
  I share your disdain for drums. Only issue is every four wheel disc vehicle I own still has a drum for the parking brake. Except these days they're electronic and need a scan tool to release them and get the rotor off!
  - mauvehaus 3y ago
    Electronic drum brakes sound like my personal version of hell. I knew of the existence of electronic parking brakes, but hadn't realized that any car would be silly enough to need a scan tool to release it for service.
- roflchoppa 3y ago
  I’m sure there is some other modern OEM hub assembly that you could swap in when it comes time to service it. Maybe off a 4Runner/jeep?
- imp0cat 3y ago
  Well, supposedly drums are better for the environment (less particle pollution when braking), so expect to see more of them, not less.
  - I_Am_Nous 3y ago
    Is the claim that they produce less particles, or that they distribute less particles because the shoes/drum is more of a closed system? Generally drums are worse brakes than disks so if they don't brake as efficiently, you'd be grinding them for longer, likely making more particles. I haven't heard much about drums lately except that cheap cars still sometimes have them in the rear.
TylerE 3y ago
I am mostly with you, but preferring a timing chain to a timing belt is... interesting. Virtually every engine I know with a chain ends up either regularly failing early, or requiring early (and labor intensive, and thus expensive) unscheduled replacement off all the tensioners, etc.
- CarVac 3y ago
  The gen 2 Prius has a timing chain and it's one of the most reliable vehicles of all time.
- genter 3y ago
  Care to share some? Because that's the exact opposite of my experience. I've never heard of a chain itself failing, but the plastic guides can get brittle and break. I think BMW and some Fords are bad at that. I've owned several high mileage vehicles (over 300k) including Toyota 22RE, 3RZ, and Chevy LS with their original timing chain. Now that I think about it, does the LS even have a tensioner or chain guide?
  - jdietrich 3y ago
    Belts tend to fail abruptly and catastrophically, but generally only if they're neglected and used well beyond their design life. Chains fail more insidiously, because they get longer over time. The pins eat away at the plates, increasing the spacing between the rollers. This isn't immediately noticeable, because the timing sprockets will wear to match the altered dimensions of the chain. Worn chains cause all sorts of subtle timing problems and the lifespan of a chain is much less predictable, because it's highly dependent on lubrication; missed oil changes or poor oil quality will drastically accelerate chain wear. From an enthusiast's perspective, a chain is probably preferable, because it tends to give you some warning before it fails - you might hear a rattle at idle, you might have problems with starting or misfires, you might get a check engine light and an EBD-II code from the timing sensors. That's a much less scary prospect than the potential for a sudden and catastrophic failure of a timing belt. From a manufacturer or dealership's perspective, belts have some clear advantages. Unless there was a manufacturing defect in the belt, they'll almost never cause trouble if replaced according to schedule. That has obvious liability implications - it's not their fault if the customer ignores the specified replacement interval, but it potentially is their fault if a chain wears faster than expected. BMW, VAG and Jaguar Land Rover have all recently settled class action lawsuits related to the premature failure of timing chains.
stronglikedan 3y ago
Nit, but it only has as much internal space as a compact SUV, because that's essentially what it is, just without the "S".
- MilStdJunkie 3y ago
  Oh it's a compact. That xB is like the length of a Mini, but you got this cave inside because each wheel is perched at each corner, maximizing usable space. It's insane. It's like someone took an Econoline van and hit it with a shrink ray. It's definitely bigger inside than the wife's 4Runner, but yknow . . I guess a 4runner is a "small" SUV these days, huh? Honda Element is probably the closest thing to it I can think of, but it's a much bigger/beefier car, not the subcompact the xB is. I would love to get a Kei van if they could pull highway speeds. Damn shame they ruined the xB post-2006, but ah well the writing would soon be on the wall for all of Scion in general. Poor Scion.
  - dontlaugh 3y ago
    I was going to say a Mini is far smaller, but apparently the current generation ones are almost 4m long. I was still assuming the 3.65m original BMW Mini.
barbazoo 3y ago
I think you may have changed my life. I have never seen this car before. It took me a couple of minutes to be able to appreciate it. But zooming in on the tech, it looks very electric, vs electronic. The infotainment system is modular, how awesome is that.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > It took me a couple of minutes to be able to appreciate it. You're saying that based on specs! To really appreciate a Scion, you have to drive one-- they're nothing special compared to EVs now, but for ICE vehicles they're pleasantly zippy.
  - Tade0 3y ago
    Scion was such a weird brand. The Scion iM for instance was supposed to be some kind of cool, young people car, while its European counterpart - the Auris (which I drive in its station wagon incarnation) is a sleepy mom car/taxi for the city.
hollerith 3y ago
A friend used to have a 2004 Scion, and I know what you mean.
RF_Savage 3y ago
The more time goes on, the more 1998 being the height of human civilization in The Matrix starts making sense. I certainly wonder how repairable cars will be in ten years. Or will they further progress down the path where everything is cryptographically serialized and has incompatible firmware versions. So they can only repaired as long as OEM parts and tooling is available. And then nothing.
- geek_at 3y ago
  You just have to wait until fairphone starts building electric cars
- euroderf 3y ago
  But if you focus on culture and not on tech, can you beat the late 60s ? Project Apollo, Woodstock, Monty Python.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    Depends on which culture you mean. I know some folks that can attest to the 1960s being a bit challenging.
    - euroderf 3y ago
      Point taken.
  - manonthewall 3y ago
    I think it would be the 80s for me lol
- MilStdJunkie 3y ago
  In America, anyway, 9/11 was a triple-huge giganto turning point for the national character. It's really hard to overstate, especially for the young 'uns, who don't remember life before US PATRIOT, PALANTIR, and all the other spookshows that helped bankroll "web 2.0". Ever notice that's when all the new sports cars started trying to look like muscle from the 70s? Just a tiny slice of what was happening in our collective brains in the 21st century.
Lio 3y ago
I’d go a bit latter. I like my 2015 Golf. The telemetry has long since stopped working but I’m left with is a car with adaptive cruise control and between 50-80mpg (imperial). Record was 82mpg after following a lory on a 150 mile motorway run. It’s still got useful satnav, infotainment systems and all the safety features I’m aware of. It even has nice little touches like the self-dimming rear-view mirror, for when you’ve got a berk with full-beams on driving up your arse at night. I’d miss that stuff on an older car. I can afford to get a new car every year if I wanted but modern cars are annoying and creepy. I have no idea what I’d replace it with so I just keep it running.
- willtemperley 3y ago
  Agreed on 2015 being the peak - I have a Mazda 6 which has similar mpg and is big enough to be a stealth camper. The only contrivance I could do without is keyless ignition, which provides an effective attack vector for thieves and the ability to lose the keys while driving. A mobile phone in works well to augment the aging infotainment / satnav, the only issue being UK law is unclear on whether it's allowable to touch a phone in a cradle. The police say you cannot touch your phone when driving and lawyers say you are only banned from using a handheld device, which a phone in a cradle is not.
  - hermitcrab 3y ago
    I've had 2 Mazda 6's. Great cars, but the second one had keyless ignition, which I found really annoying. If I am leaving something valuable in the boot (trunk) I want to try the door handle to check the car is locked. But as soon as you walk up to the car it unlocked. I would have to give the key to a family member and have them walk away first. Grrr.
    - willtemperley 3y ago
      Very annoying. You can get it keyless entry disabled on the car I believe.
    - heywire 3y ago
wkjagt 3y ago
This is why I absolutely love my 1993 Miata. Every control is physical/mechanical. Whenever I use my wife's 2017 minivan, I'm reminded of that. Even changing the radio station requires going through a menu. The one I listen to is on page 2 of the presets, and the UI is so slow that changing station becomes a planned multi-step activity. Eyes off the road / find next page button / eyes back on road while page changes / eyes off the road to find preset 8 / eyes back in the road. In my Miata I can change the radio station without looking (but ironically, I never listen to the radio in it). We ordered a Ioniq 5, and I hope it's better, but I'm not looking forward to it.
ourmandave 3y ago
I have an 06 xB with the same bullet proof 1.5L, but an automatic CVT transmission. I'm jealous, because the manual has actual gears that will last forever. (I should buy another one and garage it until this one blows up at 300K+.)
heywire 3y ago
I loved my 2006 xB (thunder cloud metallic, manual transmission). It was the first new car I purchased. Traded it in a couple years later and regretted it.
leokennis 3y ago
It's the same with home automation. Spending hours a month babysitting/updating/fixing/configuring it, to shave off valuable seconds otherwise spent on turning on lights or AirPlaying some music.
Grazester 3y ago
I was about to ask how much oil does that Scion burn but realized it was the Tc that used the 2AZ with those terrible piston rings.

downut 3y ago

They can't pry my 2001 v8 4wd 14mpg[1] Tundra bought new for cash from my cold dead hands because I am seriously thinking of when I die I get laid out in the bed and the whole shebang put in an enormous hole and buried somewhere. I'd prefer if it was hauled out by helicopter over the Pacific somewhere and oops dropped. 125K miles, 3rd suspension, zero problems, manual windows, door locks, seats mirrors, everything. The odometer seems to be digital. It even passes GA emissions now. [1] It was so... liberating when we started buying Priuses and I discovered I could drive them like race cars and get 44mpg more or less reliably. X-country + urban miles almost all go there. The current 2015 is so comfortably very dumb.

MilStdJunkie 3y ago
Nice. 2001 Tundra's a good candidate for "best pickup truck ever made". You might very well get 2x-3x new cost for it on the used market now, but there's absolutely nothing that replaces it, so that makes it a one-way cash thing. Your plan's better.
- Mistletoe 3y ago
  My family has been passing our 2001 Tundra around for a very long time now after it retired from being the ranch truck. We call it Ed Truck the red truck. It has 363,000 miles now and I’m the current owner. The engine and whole truck is incredible. I think about how different it must have been made when I think about things like it still being on the original AC compressor and never needing even refrigerant after 363,000 miles and 22 years. Such a testament to the Toyota Way. All the buttons and controls still work, which is very much not the norm after owning many other cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way
  - downut 3y ago
    I had been admittedly a bit depressed before the big move across the country and the Tundra had been a bit neglected except for oil changes/tires etc. So after the life reset settled down Mr. Tundra got the full mechanics inspection with me ready to put in Whatever It Takes to make it ready for the next 20 years. And nope! Nothing mechanical needed fixing except for the timing chain. Rats had done their thing but that's just wires and money. I've got brake pads and a spare fan clutch stockpiled. Might replace more of the basic suspension bits if they become noticeable. Two things the mechanic told me that I found surprising is neither the AC nor the cooling system(!) needed maintenance after 22 years.
    - RecycledEle 3y ago
      > Whatever It Takes to make it ready for the next 20 years. And nope! Nothing mechanical needed fixing except for the timing chain. Rats had done their thing but that's just wires and money. Say you're rich without saying you're rich.
jacquesm 3y ago
125K miles (barely broken in for a Tundra) 3rd suspension??? How did that happen?
- dieselgate 3y ago
  My thoughts as well, Maybe they were lifts or something
- happytiger 3y ago
  Struts and shocks can last maybe 50-100k. If you’re beating the crap out of your truck you might be on the low end of that scale. Maybe that’s what they mean?
- downut 3y ago
  20 years on the hard 4wd trails of AZ, CA, CO, NM and both MX BCN and Sonora. A couple of hundred miles on the Baja 1000 route with a bed full of camping gear did one suspension in. And there's a lift/helper leaf in there. Never once left us stranded.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Ah I see. Ok, that makes sense then.
_fat_santa 3y ago
I have an 2009 4Runner and while it's got more "bells and whistles" (power seats, power windows, power 2WD/4WD switcher), but it's still very much a "dumb" car compared to any relatively modern car with an infotainment system. I hope Toyota keeps making their cars as dumb as possible. The 4Runner had it's best sales year 10 years after it's redesign and I think that speaks to the market for "dumb" cars.

Baeocystin 3y ago

I have a '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee. It's new enough to have well-sorted fuel injection, good AC and heat, old enough to have zero tattletales, nags, and subscriptions. It has the best sightlines, is comfy and roomy on the inside, and frankly relatively compact compared to many of the behemoths on the road today. If it ever dies I'm really going to miss it!

jacquesm 3y ago
I had one of those and while it was a great car in the Canadian North I'd hate to drive in Europe with the gas prices here right now.
thaumaturgy 3y ago
2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee here. It gets driven hard so it has some problems, and everyone around me keeps pressuring me to get a new car. I've looked, and I've driven a pile of rentals, and everything is just so awful. I think 2010 is about the latest model year I'd ever go. So instead I'm getting a really sweet new motor built for mine. Still the same 4.0, but with updated components and a focus on improved efficiency. My target is 25mpg highway. ...and a little bit of hooning around the desert racing circuit maybe. :-) Even with a fancy motor (and transmission), it'll still be less money than a new replacement vehicle, and most importantly, it won't piss me off all the time. With already-upgraded suspension, steering, and some electronics, it's kinda fun and quite capable. The only thing I'm really missing is safety. Jeeps are pretty terrible at the moose test to begin with, and 2001 was too early for side curtain airbags. I think I can retrofit 2004 side curtain bags into mine, and I'm redistributing weight in the vehicle that, along with some of the newer electronic suspensions, should improve its highway handling.

drcongo 3y ago

I've been keeping an eye out for an imported Toyota bB (same car but Japanese domestic market) for my daughter, fantastic little cars.

jonwest 3y ago
I had one. It is the one car I’ve had that I truly miss. So many clever little features that made it an absolute joy to own and drive. Slow as absolute molasses, but still such a wonderful experience. So spacious for the size, with things like the rear seat adjusting so that you could have more storage area or more rear passenger legroom, which, holy crap, why was that not more widespread?! That car had significantly more legroom than _any_ “midsize” SUV on the market in 2023, certainly more than the Mazda CX50 we ended up getting, which I genuinely thought this article was about because all of the annoyances were ringing true.

UncleOxidant 3y ago

> They can pry my 2005 Scion xB from my cold dead hands for this exact reason. Insanely light, manual shifter, manual everything, timing CHAIN, 30+ mpg Same for my 1998 Honda Civic. It just keeps going&going. Cheap to fix when it breaks down. I'd say late 80s through the 90s were the high point for Honda. I just don't think there will ever be many cars that will be as good & reliable as Hondas from those years. They really set a high bar during that era.

grogenaut 3y ago
Early to mid 2000s are also good and the fit and finish was nicer. Have my mom's 08 tsx and it's still great
redwall_hp 3y ago
My 2007 Honda Fit has over 200K miles on it and I'm keeping it as long as I can. They discontinued it in the NA market too, unfortunately, even though there's a snazzy looking new model in Japan. I will inevitably end up with a Civic hatchback.
- troyvit 3y ago
  We have one of these too! We call it GOAT (Greatest of All Time) because it just keeps going and going well. There was mention higher up of Hondas having trim issues around this year and yeah, the paint is faded, etc. but it is just unstoppable, and the manual shift is a joy.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Mine has fewer miles on it, but my hope is that it's like compact smartphones. Honda will keep it out of the North American market for a couple of years just to release one a few years later to pent up demand, just in time for me to get (and be able to afford) a new one. Another bit that gives me hope is that there's an EV version in Japan - Honda isn't on Toyota's hydrogen train.
tlavoie 3y ago
Still delighted with my '09 Civic Si. Has "enough" tech for me, nothing that gets too irritating, and is a blast to drive. It'll be a dark day when it goes...

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago

'96 Mustang Cobra. You couldn't even buy it with an automatic. It doesn't ding about the seat belt, let alone any of this other bullshit. Pretty soon I won't have to deal with valets because none will know how to drive it. WIN. On a side note, one day I was driving along listening to a Cubs game on the radio when I realized I was hearing stereo... AM. Ford radios of that era were stereo-AM capable. Now they're getting rid of AM in cars altogether. Oh yeah, today I had to get a new tire and the guy at the shop reminded me of the most offensive regression in cars yet: NO SPARE TIRE. This should be illegal. Nobody should accept this.

jacquesm 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-QUAM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-QUAM
jfoutz 3y ago
you know, it's weird. I have a Miata. It's not particularly fast, but it's fun to drive. Went on a bit of a road trip over the summer, and parking was tight at one place I stayed, so was valet only. They had to get a janitor to pull my car around the next day. I mean, it's a little unusual to need to push the stick down to go into reverse, but I guess it's like secret knowledge now days. I really love that car. Who knows how things'll go. I hope it'll outlast me.
- ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
  And it's an actual sports car. People don't even know what that means anymore. And regular hatchbacks and station wagons are now "SUVs."
- Klonoar 3y ago
  I've routinely had to have valets walk me to my car since nobody who's working that day can drive it. As a result, I've - more than a few times now - gotten the hotel to comp the parking since I end up doing the actual parking and retrieval myself.
- jackjeff 3y ago

dclowd9901 3y ago

Mo tech mo problems. My 87 Toyota 4x4, 89 bmw e30, 83 Toyota Land Cruiser and 76 bmw e10 are an effortless joy to drive (for someone with a little mechanical acumen). I call upon you all: reclaim agency over your driving experience, learn how a carb works, drive a cool classic and cut bullshit tech out of your life (while not contributing to the throwaway culture lithium ion has brought us).

bandyaboot 3y ago
Bring back carbs and crank starts! I miss the days of getting a free buzz from the gas fumes when walking through a parking lot.
TylerE 3y ago
I know how all that works. I also know how modern cars are designed to survive collisions. You can keep 'em. I'd consider something like as a fun weekend car, but it's be relegated to rural backroads and track days.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  That reasoning hurts my head. "Those cars are dangerous. I'd like one, too, but only so I could drive it under conditions associated with the highest possible fatality rates per vehicle-mile."
  - TylerE 3y ago
    Huh? How is a rural road or parking lot with literally no other cars around "the highest possible fatality rate"? It's not ME that scares me. It's Sally Mae driving a 7 thousand pound Suburban while talking on the phone and putting on make up. She won't even notice anything smaller than a full size sedan.
    - serf 3y ago
      lack of response during an incident, poor road conditions, little or no flood control, rapidly changing road conditions over timne poor lighting, randomized rural traffic (tractors/goats/whatever), and inconsistent street placement. rural driving has always been historically pretty dangerous, even on an otherwise empty road.

jareklupinski 3y ago

the literal united states federal government had to step in to take my diesel golf away from me

mauvehaus 3y ago

To your list of highly desirable features, I'd add four wheel disc brakes. I was pretty over the moon when we sold off the last car in the household with drums on the rear. Drums are a pain in the ass. Maybe they're not too bad if you deal with them often enough, but discs are simpler by miles. ...And then we bought a '47 Willys Jeep a year later. Which has 4 wheel drums. And the worlds least conveniently located master cylinder.

wigglewoggle 3y ago
I share your disdain for drums. Only issue is every four wheel disc vehicle I own still has a drum for the parking brake. Except these days they're electronic and need a scan tool to release them and get the rotor off!
- mauvehaus 3y ago
  Electronic drum brakes sound like my personal version of hell. I knew of the existence of electronic parking brakes, but hadn't realized that any car would be silly enough to need a scan tool to release it for service.
roflchoppa 3y ago
I’m sure there is some other modern OEM hub assembly that you could swap in when it comes time to service it. Maybe off a 4Runner/jeep?
imp0cat 3y ago
Well, supposedly drums are better for the environment (less particle pollution when braking), so expect to see more of them, not less.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  Is the claim that they produce less particles, or that they distribute less particles because the shoes/drum is more of a closed system? Generally drums are worse brakes than disks so if they don't brake as efficiently, you'd be grinding them for longer, likely making more particles. I haven't heard much about drums lately except that cheap cars still sometimes have them in the rear.

TylerE 3y ago

I am mostly with you, but preferring a timing chain to a timing belt is... interesting. Virtually every engine I know with a chain ends up either regularly failing early, or requiring early (and labor intensive, and thus expensive) unscheduled replacement off all the tensioners, etc.

CarVac 3y ago
The gen 2 Prius has a timing chain and it's one of the most reliable vehicles of all time.
genter 3y ago
Care to share some? Because that's the exact opposite of my experience. I've never heard of a chain itself failing, but the plastic guides can get brittle and break. I think BMW and some Fords are bad at that. I've owned several high mileage vehicles (over 300k) including Toyota 22RE, 3RZ, and Chevy LS with their original timing chain. Now that I think about it, does the LS even have a tensioner or chain guide?
- jdietrich 3y ago
  Belts tend to fail abruptly and catastrophically, but generally only if they're neglected and used well beyond their design life. Chains fail more insidiously, because they get longer over time. The pins eat away at the plates, increasing the spacing between the rollers. This isn't immediately noticeable, because the timing sprockets will wear to match the altered dimensions of the chain. Worn chains cause all sorts of subtle timing problems and the lifespan of a chain is much less predictable, because it's highly dependent on lubrication; missed oil changes or poor oil quality will drastically accelerate chain wear. From an enthusiast's perspective, a chain is probably preferable, because it tends to give you some warning before it fails - you might hear a rattle at idle, you might have problems with starting or misfires, you might get a check engine light and an EBD-II code from the timing sensors. That's a much less scary prospect than the potential for a sudden and catastrophic failure of a timing belt. From a manufacturer or dealership's perspective, belts have some clear advantages. Unless there was a manufacturing defect in the belt, they'll almost never cause trouble if replaced according to schedule. That has obvious liability implications - it's not their fault if the customer ignores the specified replacement interval, but it potentially is their fault if a chain wears faster than expected. BMW, VAG and Jaguar Land Rover have all recently settled class action lawsuits related to the premature failure of timing chains.

stronglikedan 3y ago

Nit, but it only has as much internal space as a compact SUV, because that's essentially what it is, just without the "S".

MilStdJunkie 3y ago
Oh it's a compact. That xB is like the length of a Mini, but you got this cave inside because each wheel is perched at each corner, maximizing usable space. It's insane. It's like someone took an Econoline van and hit it with a shrink ray. It's definitely bigger inside than the wife's 4Runner, but yknow . . I guess a 4runner is a "small" SUV these days, huh? Honda Element is probably the closest thing to it I can think of, but it's a much bigger/beefier car, not the subcompact the xB is. I would love to get a Kei van if they could pull highway speeds. Damn shame they ruined the xB post-2006, but ah well the writing would soon be on the wall for all of Scion in general. Poor Scion.
- dontlaugh 3y ago
  I was going to say a Mini is far smaller, but apparently the current generation ones are almost 4m long. I was still assuming the 3.65m original BMW Mini.

barbazoo 3y ago

I think you may have changed my life. I have never seen this car before. It took me a couple of minutes to be able to appreciate it. But zooming in on the tech, it looks very electric, vs electronic. The infotainment system is modular, how awesome is that.

jstarfish 3y ago
> It took me a couple of minutes to be able to appreciate it. You're saying that based on specs! To really appreciate a Scion, you have to drive one-- they're nothing special compared to EVs now, but for ICE vehicles they're pleasantly zippy.
- Tade0 3y ago
  Scion was such a weird brand. The Scion iM for instance was supposed to be some kind of cool, young people car, while its European counterpart - the Auris (which I drive in its station wagon incarnation) is a sleepy mom car/taxi for the city.

hollerith 3y ago

A friend used to have a 2004 Scion, and I know what you mean.

RF_Savage 3y ago

The more time goes on, the more 1998 being the height of human civilization in The Matrix starts making sense. I certainly wonder how repairable cars will be in ten years. Or will they further progress down the path where everything is cryptographically serialized and has incompatible firmware versions. So they can only repaired as long as OEM parts and tooling is available. And then nothing.

geek_at 3y ago
You just have to wait until fairphone starts building electric cars
euroderf 3y ago
But if you focus on culture and not on tech, can you beat the late 60s ? Project Apollo, Woodstock, Monty Python.
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  Depends on which culture you mean. I know some folks that can attest to the 1960s being a bit challenging.
  - euroderf 3y ago
    Point taken.
- manonthewall 3y ago
  I think it would be the 80s for me lol
MilStdJunkie 3y ago
In America, anyway, 9/11 was a triple-huge giganto turning point for the national character. It's really hard to overstate, especially for the young 'uns, who don't remember life before US PATRIOT, PALANTIR, and all the other spookshows that helped bankroll "web 2.0". Ever notice that's when all the new sports cars started trying to look like muscle from the 70s? Just a tiny slice of what was happening in our collective brains in the 21st century.

Lio 3y ago

I’d go a bit latter. I like my 2015 Golf. The telemetry has long since stopped working but I’m left with is a car with adaptive cruise control and between 50-80mpg (imperial). Record was 82mpg after following a lory on a 150 mile motorway run. It’s still got useful satnav, infotainment systems and all the safety features I’m aware of. It even has nice little touches like the self-dimming rear-view mirror, for when you’ve got a berk with full-beams on driving up your arse at night. I’d miss that stuff on an older car. I can afford to get a new car every year if I wanted but modern cars are annoying and creepy. I have no idea what I’d replace it with so I just keep it running.

willtemperley 3y ago
Agreed on 2015 being the peak - I have a Mazda 6 which has similar mpg and is big enough to be a stealth camper. The only contrivance I could do without is keyless ignition, which provides an effective attack vector for thieves and the ability to lose the keys while driving. A mobile phone in works well to augment the aging infotainment / satnav, the only issue being UK law is unclear on whether it's allowable to touch a phone in a cradle. The police say you cannot touch your phone when driving and lawyers say you are only banned from using a handheld device, which a phone in a cradle is not.
- hermitcrab 3y ago
  I've had 2 Mazda 6's. Great cars, but the second one had keyless ignition, which I found really annoying. If I am leaving something valuable in the boot (trunk) I want to try the door handle to check the car is locked. But as soon as you walk up to the car it unlocked. I would have to give the key to a family member and have them walk away first. Grrr.
  - willtemperley 3y ago
    Very annoying. You can get it keyless entry disabled on the car I believe.
  - heywire 3y ago

wkjagt 3y ago

This is why I absolutely love my 1993 Miata. Every control is physical/mechanical. Whenever I use my wife's 2017 minivan, I'm reminded of that. Even changing the radio station requires going through a menu. The one I listen to is on page 2 of the presets, and the UI is so slow that changing station becomes a planned multi-step activity. Eyes off the road / find next page button / eyes back on road while page changes / eyes off the road to find preset 8 / eyes back in the road. In my Miata I can change the radio station without looking (but ironically, I never listen to the radio in it). We ordered a Ioniq 5, and I hope it's better, but I'm not looking forward to it.

ourmandave 3y ago

I have an 06 xB with the same bullet proof 1.5L, but an automatic CVT transmission. I'm jealous, because the manual has actual gears that will last forever. (I should buy another one and garage it until this one blows up at 300K+.)

heywire 3y ago

I loved my 2006 xB (thunder cloud metallic, manual transmission). It was the first new car I purchased. Traded it in a couple years later and regretted it.

leokennis 3y ago

It's the same with home automation. Spending hours a month babysitting/updating/fixing/configuring it, to shave off valuable seconds otherwise spent on turning on lights or AirPlaying some music.

Grazester 3y ago

I was about to ask how much oil does that Scion burn but realized it was the Tc that used the 2AZ with those terrible piston rings.