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It's a realistic range for someone who's maxed out the federal sentencing guidelines—whose alleged crimes are off the scale. - "adding up the time for each cha

It's a realistic range for someone who's maxed out the federal sentencing guidelines—whose alleged crimes are off the scale. - "adding up the time for each charge is journalistic malpractice" I agree with you 100%, 99% of the time. Adding together the statutory limits, and publishing that without context, is journalistic malpractice (but great clickbait!). But it's not entirely wrong in this, exceptional outlier, case.

WendyTheWillow 3y ago
No. Just, no. That is never, ever, how it works.
- aaronmdjones 3y ago
  Tell that to Madoff, who pleaded guilty and still received the maximum possible consecutive sentence of 150 years.
  - WendyTheWillow 3y ago
    Okay, but he already knows that's not how it works, as he was not sentenced by adding up the maximum possible sentences for each of his crimes. "A long time" does not equate to "simplistic addition-based sentencing calculation".
    - aaronmdjones 3y ago
      > Okay, but he already knows that's not how it works, as he was not sentenced by adding up the maximum possible sentences for each of his crimes. Yes, he was. https://www.justice.gov/media/785641/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/media/785641/dl?inline I look then to Section 5G1.2{d) of the guidelines, which tells us that where there are multiple counts, and the guideline range exceeds the statutory maximum for the most serious count, the court must impose consecutive terms of imprisonment to the extent necessary to achieve the total punishment. There is a little bit of ambiguity, however, as to what is meant by "total punishment" where the guideline calculation calls for ~ife imprisonment, but Second Circuit case law makes clear that in such a situation, the district court is to stack or add up the maximum sentences for all the counts. In United States v. Evans, for example, 352 F.3d 65, where the guideline calculation called for life imprisonment but no count carried a life sentence, the court held that the guideline range is 240 years, the maximum sentences for all the counts added together. Accordingly, here the guideline range is not life imprisonment, but 150 years, the maximum sentences for each of the 11 counts added together.
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
It isn't realistic at all, because that's not how federal sentencing guidelines work. If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve. The rest will be served concurrently.
- perihelions 3y ago
  I'm just reciting what commentators, like this former AUSA [0], are writing. Andrew McCarthy (linked) easily gets to the maximum offense level of 43. I'm not pretending to know how to apply these D&D rules myself. [edit]: And Braden Perry, a former CFTC lawyer, also agrees with the offense level of 43 [1]. They seem to do different calculations to get to that: McCarthy applies an enhancement for "organizer or leader of a criminal activity that involved five or more participants or was otherwise extensive", while Perry finds one for "having 25 or more victims". To be fair: they also both agree a court could deviate downwards, if they find mitigating factors. That seems to be a key variable here: how many downward adjustments can the defense convince the court to apply. [0] https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-guidelines-spell-deep-trouble-for-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-gu... ("Federal Sentencing Guidelines Spell Deep Trouble for Sam Bankman-Fried") [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face-years-in-prison-over-ftx-meltdown.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face... ("Sam Bankman-Fried could face years in prison over FTX's $32 billion meltdown — if the U.S. ever gets around to arresting him")
- michaelt 3y ago
  Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison, back in 2009 [1]. He died 12 years into the sentence, in 2021, so I suppose it's possible he'd have been released early due to factors like good behaviour? Still, three-digit sentences have been seen before, and not every white collar criminal gets off with a slap on the wrist, even if a great many of them do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing,_and_prison_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing...
  - vkou 3y ago

WendyTheWillow 3y ago

No. Just, no. That is never, ever, how it works.

aaronmdjones 3y ago
Tell that to Madoff, who pleaded guilty and still received the maximum possible consecutive sentence of 150 years.
- WendyTheWillow 3y ago
  Okay, but he already knows that's not how it works, as he was not sentenced by adding up the maximum possible sentences for each of his crimes. "A long time" does not equate to "simplistic addition-based sentencing calculation".
  - aaronmdjones 3y ago
    > Okay, but he already knows that's not how it works, as he was not sentenced by adding up the maximum possible sentences for each of his crimes. Yes, he was. https://www.justice.gov/media/785641/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/media/785641/dl?inline I look then to Section 5G1.2{d) of the guidelines, which tells us that where there are multiple counts, and the guideline range exceeds the statutory maximum for the most serious count, the court must impose consecutive terms of imprisonment to the extent necessary to achieve the total punishment. There is a little bit of ambiguity, however, as to what is meant by "total punishment" where the guideline calculation calls for ~ife imprisonment, but Second Circuit case law makes clear that in such a situation, the district court is to stack or add up the maximum sentences for all the counts. In United States v. Evans, for example, 352 F.3d 65, where the guideline calculation called for life imprisonment but no count carried a life sentence, the court held that the guideline range is 240 years, the maximum sentences for all the counts added together. Accordingly, here the guideline range is not life imprisonment, but 150 years, the maximum sentences for each of the 11 counts added together.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago

It isn't realistic at all, because that's not how federal sentencing guidelines work. If the crimes are similar, the judge is going to lump them together and pick the longest sentence as the one to serve. The rest will be served concurrently.

perihelions 3y ago
I'm just reciting what commentators, like this former AUSA [0], are writing. Andrew McCarthy (linked) easily gets to the maximum offense level of 43. I'm not pretending to know how to apply these D&D rules myself. [edit]: And Braden Perry, a former CFTC lawyer, also agrees with the offense level of 43 [1]. They seem to do different calculations to get to that: McCarthy applies an enhancement for "organizer or leader of a criminal activity that involved five or more participants or was otherwise extensive", while Perry finds one for "having 25 or more victims". To be fair: they also both agree a court could deviate downwards, if they find mitigating factors. That seems to be a key variable here: how many downward adjustments can the defense convince the court to apply. [0] https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-guidelines-spell-deep-trouble-for-sam-bankman-fried/ https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/01/federal-sentencing-gu... ("Federal Sentencing Guidelines Spell Deep Trouble for Sam Bankman-Fried") [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face-years-in-prison-over-ftx-meltdown.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/05/sam-bankman-fried-could-face... ("Sam Bankman-Fried could face years in prison over FTX's $32 billion meltdown — if the U.S. ever gets around to arresting him")
michaelt 3y ago
Bernie Madoff was sentenced to 150 years in prison, back in 2009 [1]. He died 12 years into the sentence, in 2021, so I suppose it's possible he'd have been released early due to factors like good behaviour? Still, three-digit sentences have been seen before, and not every white collar criminal gets off with a slap on the wrist, even if a great many of them do. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing,_and_prison_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff#Plea,_sentencing...
- vkou 3y ago