7 ms·

I agree with almost all of his points, but it turns out I don't agree enough to forego the convenience of doing without cash. If bitcoin weren't so stupid I'd

I agree with almost all of his points, but it turns out I don't agree enough to forego the convenience of doing without cash. If bitcoin weren't so stupid I'd gladly use that instead of highly centralized corporate payment systems.

fsflover 3y ago
> If bitcoin weren't so stupid I'd gladly use that instead of highly centralized corporate payment systems. Did you consider Monero or Etherium?
- xena 3y ago
  Name five restaurants that take either.
boomchinolo78 3y ago
In the US cash is more convenient for paying dinner. Instead of the awkward dance of check -> put card -> bring back -> tip. You just pay it with tip, can easily round up or down a bit...
- kalupa 3y ago
  it still is wild that they take the card away from the table when tap payments exist so extensively, even in the USA. Here in Canada, the servers often will bring the card reader at the same time as they bring over the bill, because the assumption is you're likely paying with a card, either credit or debit, so why not save the extra trips entirely?
  - balderdash 3y ago
    I actually prefer it - I hate having the waiter hovering over me while i decide the tip + I can continue a conversation/finalize my bill at my leisure if my card is simply returned awaiting my signature.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      Yes, it is far less intrusive!
    - petre 3y ago
      In Europe they look the other way so you can type your PIN without them looking over your shoulder. Waiters are quite professional about this aspect.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - xena 3y ago
    Canadian banks send you the reader for free, US banks make you pay. The cheapest option wins.
  - Analemma_ 3y ago
    It seems to be rolling out gradually. In Seattle I'd say about a quarter of restaurants bring card readers to the table and it's ticking up over time.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  How is that any different from the "awkward dance" of using cash and waiting to get change back? And trying to make sure you wind up with bills of the necessary denominations to be able to leave the right tip? Not to mention when you realize you misplanned and need to visit the ATM while someone stays at the table. No, if we're talking only about convenience, a card wins every single time.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > How is that any different from the "awkward dance" of using cash and waiting to get change back? I don't wait for the change to come back. The change is part of (or the entirety of, depending) the tip.
    - crazygringo 3y ago
      My ATM only dispenses 20's. (And 50's.) What do you do when the bill+tax is 19? And with a normal tip would be 22 or 23? And you don't have anything less than a 20 at the moment? Because, you know, that happens?
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        I don't know... that's never really happened to me. I generally have a small selection of bills smaller than 20s in my wallet. I guess in those cases I'd wait for change.
        crazygringo 3y ago
        Huh. Weird. I feel like I can count on one hand the number of times in my life where I've happened to have bills that add up to exact change for a meal. Even allowing a couple of dollars to round in either direction. Like, I always need change. Maybe different strategies for managing cash? Which it's never even occurred to me until now that could be a thing.
c22 3y ago
I buy stuff without cash all the time, but if I find myself in an establishment that does not accept cash I buy nothing at all, and usually loudly remark that it sucks that I can't use cash there while I am leaving.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  I do the same, except for the loudly complaining part. I just won't do business there, and won't return.
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> I agree with almost all of his points, but it turns out I don't agree enough to forego the convenience of doing without cash. Well, having to check the correctness of the electronic transactions (are the correct? Were some of them fraudulent? - yes, both happens) all the time, and having to get along with the "anti-fraud systems" often involved in electronic transactions is in my experience very inconvenient. Cash is much more convenient in this regard. P.S. Of course every hacker ("Hacker News") would also correctly say that paying electronically without leaking lots of private data is hard, and thus very inconvenient. Another argument why cash is more convenient.

fsflover 3y ago

> If bitcoin weren't so stupid I'd gladly use that instead of highly centralized corporate payment systems. Did you consider Monero or Etherium?

xena 3y ago
Name five restaurants that take either.

boomchinolo78 3y ago

In the US cash is more convenient for paying dinner. Instead of the awkward dance of check -> put card -> bring back -> tip. You just pay it with tip, can easily round up or down a bit...

kalupa 3y ago
it still is wild that they take the card away from the table when tap payments exist so extensively, even in the USA. Here in Canada, the servers often will bring the card reader at the same time as they bring over the bill, because the assumption is you're likely paying with a card, either credit or debit, so why not save the extra trips entirely?
- balderdash 3y ago
  I actually prefer it - I hate having the waiter hovering over me while i decide the tip + I can continue a conversation/finalize my bill at my leisure if my card is simply returned awaiting my signature.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    Yes, it is far less intrusive!
  - petre 3y ago
    In Europe they look the other way so you can type your PIN without them looking over your shoulder. Waiters are quite professional about this aspect.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- xena 3y ago
  Canadian banks send you the reader for free, US banks make you pay. The cheapest option wins.
- Analemma_ 3y ago
  It seems to be rolling out gradually. In Seattle I'd say about a quarter of restaurants bring card readers to the table and it's ticking up over time.
crazygringo 3y ago
How is that any different from the "awkward dance" of using cash and waiting to get change back? And trying to make sure you wind up with bills of the necessary denominations to be able to leave the right tip? Not to mention when you realize you misplanned and need to visit the ATM while someone stays at the table. No, if we're talking only about convenience, a card wins every single time.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > How is that any different from the "awkward dance" of using cash and waiting to get change back? I don't wait for the change to come back. The change is part of (or the entirety of, depending) the tip.
  - crazygringo 3y ago
    My ATM only dispenses 20's. (And 50's.) What do you do when the bill+tax is 19? And with a normal tip would be 22 or 23? And you don't have anything less than a 20 at the moment? Because, you know, that happens?
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I don't know... that's never really happened to me. I generally have a small selection of bills smaller than 20s in my wallet. I guess in those cases I'd wait for change.
      - crazygringo 3y ago
        Huh. Weird. I feel like I can count on one hand the number of times in my life where I've happened to have bills that add up to exact change for a meal. Even allowing a couple of dollars to round in either direction. Like, I always need change. Maybe different strategies for managing cash? Which it's never even occurred to me until now that could be a thing.

c22 3y ago

I buy stuff without cash all the time, but if I find myself in an establishment that does not accept cash I buy nothing at all, and usually loudly remark that it sucks that I can't use cash there while I am leaving.

JohnFen 3y ago
I do the same, except for the loudly complaining part. I just won't do business there, and won't return.

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> I agree with almost all of his points, but it turns out I don't agree enough to forego the convenience of doing without cash. Well, having to check the correctness of the electronic transactions (are the correct? Were some of them fraudulent? - yes, both happens) all the time, and having to get along with the "anti-fraud systems" often involved in electronic transactions is in my experience very inconvenient. Cash is much more convenient in this regard. P.S. Of course every hacker ("Hacker News") would also correctly say that paying electronically without leaking lots of private data is hard, and thus very inconvenient. Another argument why cash is more convenient.