4 ms·

This is depressing. They clearly have they ability ($$$) to do the required amount of manual QA, but don't. Or there was QA and someone decided that your case s

by tpmx 3y ago

This is depressing. They clearly have they ability ($$$) to do the required amount of manual QA, but don't. Or there was QA and someone decided that your case still wasn't enough to hold up the release. In my mind, when we pay that ridiculous Apple premium on RAM and storage, we pay for excellent quality in SW/HW. They also need to deliver that quality.

mort96 3y ago
Or they did QA but just happened to miss this issue. Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug, I'm betting Apple is among them.
- tpmx 3y ago
  That would be: not delivering while still charging a premium.
- krackers 3y ago
  Apple still hasn't put up any official page about the issue though, nor does it appear they've pulled the update. Even if it missed QA, why haven't they made any official comment?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    You clearly don't know Apple as a company. Last most big companies, they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products (unless forced to by large scale fiascos) because that would damage their perfect brand image. It's why they have comments disabled on all their social media accounts.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products Of course they do. They’re just secretive in general, and keep communications edited. Compared to the word salad of modern companies on social media, I find it refreshing. Just fix the problem, issue replacements for those affected and move on quietly.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >Of course they do. Where? Do you have any examples?
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Where? Do you have any examples? The whole battery gate saga. Touch Bar. The 2013 Mac Pro [1]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-failure-admission https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-fai...
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Yeah but that only proves my original point that Apple only admits mistakes when the public scandals are so violent it can't possibly deny them anymore as the shit pile broomed under the carped has grown so large it makes even them trip on it, so then they just enter damage control mode and PR recovery but not out of the kindness of their heart but because of media backlash. But they never have the common sense to release statements like "hey, the latest MacOS update might brick some systems so we're pulling the updated until we can do further testing and patching, if you've been affected by the bug already go to a Apple store and have it fixed for free".
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
- codr7 3y ago
  Used to be, while Jobs was still around. These days it's just a bunch of wannabes trying too hard to be him.
- rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
  "You're updating it wrong." —Steve
- solarkraft 3y ago
  > Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug I've run into such horrific bugs during pretty normal use that I don't think this anymore.
pb7 3y ago
It's a bug...
- tpmx 3y ago
  It's a device bricking bug. For a $2.5-10k device.
  - astrange 3y ago
    Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss. It's not possible (well, it's very difficult) to do this on an Apple Silicon Mac; once there's an update you can always apply it from another Mac, like the steps on this page do, and your data is still there. With Intel Macs it's possible.
    - cesarb 3y ago
      > Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss. The definition of "bricked" is not set in stone; a lot of what a normal person would consider "bricked" (doesn't turn on, or turns on to an unresponsive black screen, and no magic sequence of button presses can reset it to working order) could be fixed by a power user with the right equipment, software, and knowledge. In this case, it requires fairly expensive equipment (another $2.5-10k device), somewhat easy to acquire software, and the appropriate set of instructions, to overwrite the device's broken firmware with a working copy; you don't have to open up the device and plug a JTAG adapter, but using the DFU protocol is very similar to that, since in both cases you're writing directly to the firmware under control of an external device. This is not like "BIOS FlashBack" and similar on non-Apple PCs, in which the device can rewrite its firmware by itself from a common USB stick. (Also, about data loss: a device with removable storage could get bricked without any data loss, and fixed also without any data loss, simply because the data storage is separated from the firmware and from most of the hardware. It's Apple's insistence on non-removable storage which risks losing data when something else makes the device fail to boot.)
      - astrange 3y ago
Joeri 3y ago
But how would they then keep up their profit margins to keep shareholders happy? Their first obligation is to the shareholder, not to the customer. (I think it is ridiculous that the system works in that way, especially for a company that hasn’t needed investors in over a decade, but it is what it is.)

by tpmx 3y ago

mort96 3y ago

Or they did QA but just happened to miss this issue. Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug, I'm betting Apple is among them.

tpmx 3y ago
That would be: not delivering while still charging a premium.
krackers 3y ago
Apple still hasn't put up any official page about the issue though, nor does it appear they've pulled the update. Even if it missed QA, why haven't they made any official comment?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  You clearly don't know Apple as a company. Last most big companies, they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products (unless forced to by large scale fiascos) because that would damage their perfect brand image. It's why they have comments disabled on all their social media accounts.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > they never EVER publicly admit any faults or mistakes with their products Of course they do. They’re just secretive in general, and keep communications edited. Compared to the word salad of modern companies on social media, I find it refreshing. Just fix the problem, issue replacements for those affected and move on quietly.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >Of course they do. Where? Do you have any examples?
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Where? Do you have any examples? The whole battery gate saga. Touch Bar. The 2013 Mac Pro [1]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-failure-admission https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15175994/apple-mac-pro-fai...
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Yeah but that only proves my original point that Apple only admits mistakes when the public scandals are so violent it can't possibly deny them anymore as the shit pile broomed under the carped has grown so large it makes even them trip on it, so then they just enter damage control mode and PR recovery but not out of the kindness of their heart but because of media backlash. But they never have the common sense to release statements like "hey, the latest MacOS update might brick some systems so we're pulling the updated until we can do further testing and patching, if you've been affected by the bug already go to a Apple store and have it fixed for free".
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
codr7 3y ago
Used to be, while Jobs was still around. These days it's just a bunch of wannabes trying too hard to be him.
rainbowzootsuit 3y ago
"You're updating it wrong." —Steve
solarkraft 3y ago
> Most companies would consider "the upgrade sometimes bricks the device" to be a release-stopping bug I've run into such horrific bugs during pretty normal use that I don't think this anymore.

pb7 3y ago

It's a bug...

tpmx 3y ago
It's a device bricking bug. For a $2.5-10k device.
- astrange 3y ago
  Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss. It's not possible (well, it's very difficult) to do this on an Apple Silicon Mac; once there's an update you can always apply it from another Mac, like the steps on this page do, and your data is still there. With Intel Macs it's possible.
  - cesarb 3y ago
    > Brick usually means unfixable without an EEPROM replacement or data loss. The definition of "bricked" is not set in stone; a lot of what a normal person would consider "bricked" (doesn't turn on, or turns on to an unresponsive black screen, and no magic sequence of button presses can reset it to working order) could be fixed by a power user with the right equipment, software, and knowledge. In this case, it requires fairly expensive equipment (another $2.5-10k device), somewhat easy to acquire software, and the appropriate set of instructions, to overwrite the device's broken firmware with a working copy; you don't have to open up the device and plug a JTAG adapter, but using the DFU protocol is very similar to that, since in both cases you're writing directly to the firmware under control of an external device. This is not like "BIOS FlashBack" and similar on non-Apple PCs, in which the device can rewrite its firmware by itself from a common USB stick. (Also, about data loss: a device with removable storage could get bricked without any data loss, and fixed also without any data loss, simply because the data storage is separated from the firmware and from most of the hardware. It's Apple's insistence on non-removable storage which risks losing data when something else makes the device fail to boot.)
    - astrange 3y ago

Joeri 3y ago

But how would they then keep up their profit margins to keep shareholders happy? Their first obligation is to the shareholder, not to the customer. (I think it is ridiculous that the system works in that way, especially for a company that hasn’t needed investors in over a decade, but it is what it is.)