7 ms·

Very clever given the computer capabilities of the time. I am a fan of Penn and Teller. Despite not being into magic in any way, and not someone who generally

Very clever given the computer capabilities of the time. I am a fan of Penn and Teller. Despite not being into magic in any way, and not someone who generally cares about what's on TV, I watch their current show when I can. They are about as "real deal" as you can get, despite the schtick. Street magicians from the start to their own theatre in Vegas, and still consistent and creative. At this point it is likely they don't do it because they have to, they do it because they still want to. With the new show being trying to have them unravel someone's trick, with the odds stacked greatly against the magician, it's pretty obvious they've almost "seen it all". It also gave me a glimpse on how secretive the magician community is. Since people earn a living selling required gimmicks or instructions on how to perform specific tricks, it is completely unacceptable to discuss how things are done. For the really puzzling ones on the show, if you go online to try to find the answers, you'll often find others asking the same thing, and the accompanying wall of silence. Even more so on forums dedicated specifically to magicians. You're likely to find a large discussion, usually with links to the official store for the trick, and zero answers. To do that would be breaking the magician's code, and apparently, you don't break the code.

justinsaccount 3y ago
Very relevant to your last paragraph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8osRaFTtgHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8osRaFTtgHo
gspencley 3y ago
> It also gave me a glimpse on how secretive the magician community is. My wife and I are performing magicians. The topic of "exposure" can get downright stupid. Something you hinted at is intellectual property rights. Like you said, a lot of magicians market their inventions. And so if a "peer" of theirs were to explain the method to someone who didn't purchase it then it would be viewed as a dick move since it is affecting the livelihood of a fellow performer. For what it is worth, this is a position that I agree with. I don't market or publish my work but if I did I would be seriously pissed off from an intellectual property point of view if other people were giving it away for free and undercutting my ability to sell a "license" to perform my artistic creation. Where it gets stupid is when it comes to stuff that anyone can find in a book on Amazon or in a kid's magic kit. This is a mentality that I just cannot wrap my head around. Knowing what a thumb tip is, or how it can be used, has not ruined magic for people ... if it did, no one would pay to see a show. You go see a show to be entertained and surprised. The reason we don't "reveal" is purely artistic. When you go a see a movie, you go in willingly suspending your disbelief. But magic is more of an intellectual challenge. The entire point is to cause a jaw-dropping "that can't be possible" moment. To achieve that you go in kind of wanting to have your disbelief suspended for you. A revelation in the moment destroys that[1]. But life is way too short for the average person to give the slightest crap about how something works when they go home and have to worry about getting up in the morning to go to work or getting their kids from the babysitter. And the genuinely curious are often the future generation of magicians. So yeah, the magic community can be utterly illogical when it comes to this. [1] - Unless it doesn't. To bring this back to Penn & Teller, something Penn once said is (paraphrasing) "A trick that has a method that is more interesting than the effect is not a good trick." P&T do more than one routine where they show the effect and then the method. They do this because, artistically, these are cases where knowing the method makes it even more spectacular and amazing because the method itself is genuinely interesting. Their cups & balls routine is probably the most famous example.
- firesteelrain 3y ago
  To your point, where do you draw the line? Obviously the thumb tip was a secret once.
  - gspencley 3y ago
    I think I pretty much summed where my personal line is, at least when it comes to the "ethics" of "exposure." I'm not going to expose something that isn't mine to expose. Less in terms of ethics, every magician gets asked "how did you do that?" And every magician learns at a very early stage that if you answer it, the reaction is almost never interest and joy, it is disappointment. That's because methods are boring and often simple. And when people find out how something is done that truly amazed them, learning the method will just take that amazement and joy away from them. In the worst case they feel stupid for being fooled by it. And that's the exact opposite of what I want. I want people to enjoy a theatrical moment of astonishment. I don't want them to think that I'm trying to make a fool of them. Nor should they feel that way, since magic uses applied psychology that works on every single person ... including magicians before they understood what was happening. And it's a hard lesson for magician to learn because we were the people that HAD to know. We love methods. We're obsessed with them. Which is why I think that so many magicians get stupid about "exposure." Because they fall into that common psychological fallacy of assuming that other people think as they do. That if given the chance everyone is going to rush to find out how a trick is done. Whereas most people just don't care that much. So for me, the only ethics of it is respecting the IP rights of my peers. The rest is theatre. When it comes to widely available knowledge the only reason I have to withhold information is for the above artistic reasons. If someone who wants to get into magic and learn a few tricks to show their friends asks me to share some stuff with them I'm an open book as long as I'm not sharing something that isn't mine to share.
    - edanm 3y ago
      > Which is why I think that so many magicians get stupid about "exposure." Because they fall into that common psychological fallacy of assuming that other people think as they do. That if given the chance everyone is going to rush to find out how a trick is done. Whereas most people just don't care that much. (I' a very amateur magician) That's absolutely the right take IMO. It's amazing to me that people will try to convince me for ten minutes to tell them how something is done. When I mention that they can probably find out in about 2 minutes of searching online, they're often surprised and say they'll do it. Afaik, not once has anyone ever actually gone and looked. People forget about magic two minutes after it's done. Except for our special subset of people that just have to know :)
lunatuna 3y ago
To add to the understanding of Penn and Teller, they love their fans and beyond. I've been to two of their shows and their efforts are to entertain and teach you about scams and confidence games so that you question what you see and are being told. They go to great lengths to tell you how they are scamming you and then show you the trick and still trick you so you aren't so confident. You're not as smart as you think you are. At the end of the show they meet with the audience at the main entrance to take pictures with them and show their appreciation. They should be a high school credit.
- beebmam 3y ago
  They are truly incredible, beautiful human beings, who believe in a positive vision of what humans are capable of; that we can rise above superstition and the insanity of uncritical thought. IIRC, Penn once said that a long time ago, they would perform seances, while fully informing the audiences that nothing they're doing is supernatural and there's no actual spirits being summoned; just that they're using the same techniques that con-men mediums use. No matter what they prefaced their performances with, or assured after the performance, many members of the audience didn't believe that these weren't supernatural events, and would believe that they actually communicated with spirits. For that reason, Penn said, they stopped doing them permanently. Edit: Found the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PltJpL1C2s&t=8m12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PltJpL1C2s&t=8m12s (8:12)
medmunds 3y ago
> it is completely unacceptable to discuss how things are done My all time favorite Penn & Teller routine is "Lift Off," which breaks not only this rule, but also the one that you never repeat a trick. And finding out how it's done makes it no less magical. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=55&v=qS1Gfrb-T20 https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=55&v=qS1Gfrb-T20
- exabrial 3y ago
  Penn and Teller will tell you how they do their own tricks, I think with the OP was saying you don't reveal other magician's tricks without permission, especially if they're still for sale.
  - exabrial 3y ago
    I should add, unless said magician is being a dick or legitimately putting someone’s life in danger. Penn is extremely vocal about this
snitty 3y ago
>With the new show being trying to have them unravel someone's trick, with the odds stacked greatly against the magician, it's pretty obvious they've almost "seen it all". The two main points of the show are to feature and raise the profile of younger magicians, and to get modern video records of their tricks. The "fool us" thing, while genuine is pretty ancillary the point of the show. >It also gave me a glimpse on how secretive the magician community is. Since people earn a living selling required gimmicks or instructions on how to perform specific tricks, it is completely unacceptable to discuss how things are done. For the really puzzling ones on the show, if you go online to try to find the answers, you'll often find others asking the same thing, and the accompanying wall of silence. Even more so on forums dedicated specifically to magicians. You're likely to find a large discussion, usually with links to the official store for the trick, and zero answers. To do that would be breaking the magician's code, and apparently, you don't break the code. Very, very, very, few people make a living selling tricks, and most of those are people who design and manufacture large stage illusions for the best magicians. A small handful of performing magicians ALSO sell tricks at retail magic shops. A few more than that write and publish books through magic publishing. Some folks take the code of silence VERY seriously, but notably Penn and Teller do not. They do a cups and balls with transparent cups. They do Lift Off Of Love, which shows in detail how to do a pretty involved stage illusion. They LOVE telling people how things are done. They share similarity with Houdini in wanting to expose people who pretend that they actually have supernatural powers, and some of their tricks are aimed at showing that it's really just a high skill profession.
- EMM_386 3y ago
  > The two main points of the show are to feature and raise the profile of younger magicians, and to get modern video records of their tricks. Granted, those are two major benefits that occur as a result of the show, I still wouldn't way they are the "point" of it. The intended audience is not "people who want to see an unfamiliar young magician", and a TV network wouldn't air something just to get modern video of acts. Unlike magic, in this case I don't think there is a trick going on ... the point of it is to amaze an audience and the formula is "try to fool us". As a result, you have many unknown magicians who are trying to make a name for themselves, and a modern recording. It may be the point of the show to Penn and Teller themselves, but not to the audience. > Very, very, very, few people make a living selling tricks Making a living ... yes, that would take a lot of $50 props for your unique creation to be sold consistently. The number of people who are magicians is already a relatively small group, and the amount in that group who do it for a living is smaller still. I agree that being able to Google the methods of someone's unique new trick may not cause them financial ruin. At the same time, it may have some impact. The good news here being there is a good chance that the relatively small number of people who would even bother to try to find that answer are likely just to want to satisfy their curiosity and then move on, making them unlikely to have any impact at all. In the end, to me, it comes down to those magicians that for their own reasons don't want something they probably worked hard to perfect, that may have not existed before, and dedicated a lot of time practicing, to show up on a website. To me, it's that group that causes people to not want to post stuff online about a routine. If you are unsure if the magician is ok with that idea, then why bother? Let them post it if they want, or sell a book explaining it. Penn and Teller do reveals, but they explain in many cases why that particular trick is being revealed, and then often add the additional step of doing it again in a different way. Taking a common trick that has been around forever and making people think about it again. Or, its one of those tricks where the answer is so widespread for so long, that it doesn't really matter. Many may not have seen it, and will find it entertaining, but nobody will be upset if yet another person knows how it's done.
mrandish 3y ago
> To do that would be breaking the magician's code, and apparently, you don't break the code. Long-time magician here. The "don't break the code" thing is really just a fun fiction to maintain, mostly for kids. There are a variety of excellent reasons most magicians rarely reveal a trick. 1. It's no fun. Not only for the magician but, surprisingly, for the person you tell. This is because the method behind a trick is usually far, far less interesting and more mundane than the effect. People usually aren't happy or even really satisfied if you describe the method to them. 2. It's unproductive. Describing the method to a layperson enough to expose the trick usually doesn't put the person any closer to being able to do the trick. It especially won't put a novice any closer to even understanding why the trick works - which is actually the interesting and often quite subtle part. 3. It's boring. Truly understanding the principles behind why a particular trick that a performer has perfected to the point of working really well, in fact works so well, is usually not only complicated but complex. The "meta" behind magic is something non-magicians (and even some less experienced magicians) are completely unaware of. It's this hidden structure and deep theory that's actually the fun part. But learning what magicians call "the real work" behind an effect takes a significant amount of time. For example, I wanted to start getting into the deep work behind one card effect magicians call ACAAN. The plot is simple. A randomly named card appears at a randomly named number of cards down in a shuffled deck. The effect is over a hundred years old and there are well over a dozen books focused solely on it (I own several). There are hundreds of different "methods" which can be used to accomplish that one "effect". I can already do a serviceable ACAAN effect several different ways. Yet I went to an intensive three day workshop focused on teaching nothing but ACAAN. After those three days I now feel like I have a good start on really mastering the effect but I still have a long way to go - and honestly, now that I have insight into the deep work on ACAAN taught directly by one of the greatest living masters of ACAAN, I'm not sure I'm willing to put the level of work into it required to take my ACAAN to a level I'd enjoy performing. Finally, far from being some kind of secretive fraternity, most magicians would be delighted to teach you how to create an effect yourself because many of us are worried magic is a dying art form. However, that requires someone interested enough to devote at least a couple hours to it. Even if you never perform what you learn, you'll get some understanding of how and why magic can be such fun to study and develop - and maybe get bitten by the bug. But if you just want a one sentence drive-by "quickie" exposure of one method of one effect - most magicians have learned the kindest thing we can do in response to such temporary and fleeting curiosity is a polite fiction about some "Magicians Code."
danrl 3y ago
I can second that. I published a Copperfield illusion analysis and got approached to take it down from other magicians (not Copperfield himself). I left it out there in the open. For me, trying to crack the puzzle is part of the fun and why I spend money seeing magic shows multiple times. My blog post which they asked me to take down: https://danrl.com/magic-mail https://danrl.com/magic-mail
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Classy.
tshaddox 3y ago
The thing that bugs me about the magic community is the sentiment that “the trick is better when you don’t know how it works.” It’s obviously understandable to protect your secrets to make your performances harder to copy or even to license them to other magicians, but don’t tell me that I will enjoy the trick less if I know how it worked! I assure you that is not the case!
- jrockway 3y ago
  I agree with you completely. I enjoy it more when I know how it's done but don't notice it myself. Kind of like woodworking where someone patches a hole in the wood and you don't notice it, but they point it out anyway. With all that information, you can say "wow, I still don't even see it really" which is more impressive than just not noticing at first glance. The extra information proves how good the illusion actually is. (Penn & Teller obviously based their career around this stuff. I imagine many of the HN types also like Penn & Teller a lot as a result.) I am pretty sure it's mostly "I don't want someone else to steal this." Generally, I'm pretty unconcerned about telling people unimplemented ideas. If they want to rearrange their life to "steal" my idea, good for them. But they probably won't be able to execute it as well, so it's not really a concern I have. But, magic is tough... you want to have new material for your acts, and if someone beats you to the punch, you don't get paid. So I see why magicians are paranoid. But if we get a new generation of Penns and Tellers, I'd personally be happy.
- lesinski 3y ago
  There are most definitely performances that you will enjoy less if you learn how it works. You're trading off "knowing" for being suspended in awe or mystery.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jfengel 3y ago
  You should go out and learn some magic. There are plenty of books, videos, etc. There's actually less to learn than you might think. The vast majority of magic comes down to a handful of basic principles. What the magician adds is showmanship, and a butt-ton of practice. Once you know the basic principles, you can usually figure out the tricks. It might take multiple viewings -- which is part of the reason that it's less impressive to explain the trick. Once seen, it's hard to un-see it. Even performing the same trick twice identically gives the audience a huge opportunity to figure out what to look for. What the magician really wants is your respect for how much work went into making it work out. The trickiness is usually not that big of an insight. The hard part is that it takes hours and hours and hours to learn to, say, deal a card from the bottom of the deck while making it look exactly as if it were drawn from the top. It's taking a deeply unnatural motion and making it look as if it were a different, natural motion. So from the magician's point of view, you really would be disappointed to hear "All I did was to put your card on the bottom of the deck and deal it out." It's easy to describe and hard to do -- the least rewarding kind of skill. Most magicians already know how everybody else's tricks are done. Stealing tricks isn't really the issue. What they really want to do is steal the trick and make it their own -- which may involve elaborate construction. Many magicians are pretty competent engineers, and the big acts all have a team of engineers in their workshop. So really, if you want to know how the trick is done, go read some magic books. There are fewer secrets than you think. Once you've got the basics, watching a magic act is like solving a puzzle. It's more fun than having them tell you the solution. And you can really respect the effort that went into making it happen.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

justinsaccount 3y ago

Very relevant to your last paragraph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8osRaFTtgHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8osRaFTtgHo

gspencley 3y ago

> It also gave me a glimpse on how secretive the magician community is. My wife and I are performing magicians. The topic of "exposure" can get downright stupid. Something you hinted at is intellectual property rights. Like you said, a lot of magicians market their inventions. And so if a "peer" of theirs were to explain the method to someone who didn't purchase it then it would be viewed as a dick move since it is affecting the livelihood of a fellow performer. For what it is worth, this is a position that I agree with. I don't market or publish my work but if I did I would be seriously pissed off from an intellectual property point of view if other people were giving it away for free and undercutting my ability to sell a "license" to perform my artistic creation. Where it gets stupid is when it comes to stuff that anyone can find in a book on Amazon or in a kid's magic kit. This is a mentality that I just cannot wrap my head around. Knowing what a thumb tip is, or how it can be used, has not ruined magic for people ... if it did, no one would pay to see a show. You go see a show to be entertained and surprised. The reason we don't "reveal" is purely artistic. When you go a see a movie, you go in willingly suspending your disbelief. But magic is more of an intellectual challenge. The entire point is to cause a jaw-dropping "that can't be possible" moment. To achieve that you go in kind of wanting to have your disbelief suspended for you. A revelation in the moment destroys that[1]. But life is way too short for the average person to give the slightest crap about how something works when they go home and have to worry about getting up in the morning to go to work or getting their kids from the babysitter. And the genuinely curious are often the future generation of magicians. So yeah, the magic community can be utterly illogical when it comes to this. [1] - Unless it doesn't. To bring this back to Penn & Teller, something Penn once said is (paraphrasing) "A trick that has a method that is more interesting than the effect is not a good trick." P&T do more than one routine where they show the effect and then the method. They do this because, artistically, these are cases where knowing the method makes it even more spectacular and amazing because the method itself is genuinely interesting. Their cups & balls routine is probably the most famous example.

firesteelrain 3y ago
To your point, where do you draw the line? Obviously the thumb tip was a secret once.
- gspencley 3y ago
  I think I pretty much summed where my personal line is, at least when it comes to the "ethics" of "exposure." I'm not going to expose something that isn't mine to expose. Less in terms of ethics, every magician gets asked "how did you do that?" And every magician learns at a very early stage that if you answer it, the reaction is almost never interest and joy, it is disappointment. That's because methods are boring and often simple. And when people find out how something is done that truly amazed them, learning the method will just take that amazement and joy away from them. In the worst case they feel stupid for being fooled by it. And that's the exact opposite of what I want. I want people to enjoy a theatrical moment of astonishment. I don't want them to think that I'm trying to make a fool of them. Nor should they feel that way, since magic uses applied psychology that works on every single person ... including magicians before they understood what was happening. And it's a hard lesson for magician to learn because we were the people that HAD to know. We love methods. We're obsessed with them. Which is why I think that so many magicians get stupid about "exposure." Because they fall into that common psychological fallacy of assuming that other people think as they do. That if given the chance everyone is going to rush to find out how a trick is done. Whereas most people just don't care that much. So for me, the only ethics of it is respecting the IP rights of my peers. The rest is theatre. When it comes to widely available knowledge the only reason I have to withhold information is for the above artistic reasons. If someone who wants to get into magic and learn a few tricks to show their friends asks me to share some stuff with them I'm an open book as long as I'm not sharing something that isn't mine to share.
  - edanm 3y ago
    > Which is why I think that so many magicians get stupid about "exposure." Because they fall into that common psychological fallacy of assuming that other people think as they do. That if given the chance everyone is going to rush to find out how a trick is done. Whereas most people just don't care that much. (I' a very amateur magician) That's absolutely the right take IMO. It's amazing to me that people will try to convince me for ten minutes to tell them how something is done. When I mention that they can probably find out in about 2 minutes of searching online, they're often surprised and say they'll do it. Afaik, not once has anyone ever actually gone and looked. People forget about magic two minutes after it's done. Except for our special subset of people that just have to know :)

lunatuna 3y ago

To add to the understanding of Penn and Teller, they love their fans and beyond. I've been to two of their shows and their efforts are to entertain and teach you about scams and confidence games so that you question what you see and are being told. They go to great lengths to tell you how they are scamming you and then show you the trick and still trick you so you aren't so confident. You're not as smart as you think you are. At the end of the show they meet with the audience at the main entrance to take pictures with them and show their appreciation. They should be a high school credit.

beebmam 3y ago
They are truly incredible, beautiful human beings, who believe in a positive vision of what humans are capable of; that we can rise above superstition and the insanity of uncritical thought. IIRC, Penn once said that a long time ago, they would perform seances, while fully informing the audiences that nothing they're doing is supernatural and there's no actual spirits being summoned; just that they're using the same techniques that con-men mediums use. No matter what they prefaced their performances with, or assured after the performance, many members of the audience didn't believe that these weren't supernatural events, and would believe that they actually communicated with spirits. For that reason, Penn said, they stopped doing them permanently. Edit: Found the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PltJpL1C2s&t=8m12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PltJpL1C2s&t=8m12s (8:12)

medmunds 3y ago

> it is completely unacceptable to discuss how things are done My all time favorite Penn & Teller routine is "Lift Off," which breaks not only this rule, but also the one that you never repeat a trick. And finding out how it's done makes it no less magical. https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=55&v=qS1Gfrb-T20 https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=55&v=qS1Gfrb-T20

exabrial 3y ago
Penn and Teller will tell you how they do their own tricks, I think with the OP was saying you don't reveal other magician's tricks without permission, especially if they're still for sale.
- exabrial 3y ago
  I should add, unless said magician is being a dick or legitimately putting someone’s life in danger. Penn is extremely vocal about this

snitty 3y ago

>With the new show being trying to have them unravel someone's trick, with the odds stacked greatly against the magician, it's pretty obvious they've almost "seen it all". The two main points of the show are to feature and raise the profile of younger magicians, and to get modern video records of their tricks. The "fool us" thing, while genuine is pretty ancillary the point of the show. >It also gave me a glimpse on how secretive the magician community is. Since people earn a living selling required gimmicks or instructions on how to perform specific tricks, it is completely unacceptable to discuss how things are done. For the really puzzling ones on the show, if you go online to try to find the answers, you'll often find others asking the same thing, and the accompanying wall of silence. Even more so on forums dedicated specifically to magicians. You're likely to find a large discussion, usually with links to the official store for the trick, and zero answers. To do that would be breaking the magician's code, and apparently, you don't break the code. Very, very, very, few people make a living selling tricks, and most of those are people who design and manufacture large stage illusions for the best magicians. A small handful of performing magicians ALSO sell tricks at retail magic shops. A few more than that write and publish books through magic publishing. Some folks take the code of silence VERY seriously, but notably Penn and Teller do not. They do a cups and balls with transparent cups. They do Lift Off Of Love, which shows in detail how to do a pretty involved stage illusion. They LOVE telling people how things are done. They share similarity with Houdini in wanting to expose people who pretend that they actually have supernatural powers, and some of their tricks are aimed at showing that it's really just a high skill profession.

EMM_386 3y ago
> The two main points of the show are to feature and raise the profile of younger magicians, and to get modern video records of their tricks. Granted, those are two major benefits that occur as a result of the show, I still wouldn't way they are the "point" of it. The intended audience is not "people who want to see an unfamiliar young magician", and a TV network wouldn't air something just to get modern video of acts. Unlike magic, in this case I don't think there is a trick going on ... the point of it is to amaze an audience and the formula is "try to fool us". As a result, you have many unknown magicians who are trying to make a name for themselves, and a modern recording. It may be the point of the show to Penn and Teller themselves, but not to the audience. > Very, very, very, few people make a living selling tricks Making a living ... yes, that would take a lot of $50 props for your unique creation to be sold consistently. The number of people who are magicians is already a relatively small group, and the amount in that group who do it for a living is smaller still. I agree that being able to Google the methods of someone's unique new trick may not cause them financial ruin. At the same time, it may have some impact. The good news here being there is a good chance that the relatively small number of people who would even bother to try to find that answer are likely just to want to satisfy their curiosity and then move on, making them unlikely to have any impact at all. In the end, to me, it comes down to those magicians that for their own reasons don't want something they probably worked hard to perfect, that may have not existed before, and dedicated a lot of time practicing, to show up on a website. To me, it's that group that causes people to not want to post stuff online about a routine. If you are unsure if the magician is ok with that idea, then why bother? Let them post it if they want, or sell a book explaining it. Penn and Teller do reveals, but they explain in many cases why that particular trick is being revealed, and then often add the additional step of doing it again in a different way. Taking a common trick that has been around forever and making people think about it again. Or, its one of those tricks where the answer is so widespread for so long, that it doesn't really matter. Many may not have seen it, and will find it entertaining, but nobody will be upset if yet another person knows how it's done.

mrandish 3y ago

> To do that would be breaking the magician's code, and apparently, you don't break the code. Long-time magician here. The "don't break the code" thing is really just a fun fiction to maintain, mostly for kids. There are a variety of excellent reasons most magicians rarely reveal a trick. 1. It's no fun. Not only for the magician but, surprisingly, for the person you tell. This is because the method behind a trick is usually far, far less interesting and more mundane than the effect. People usually aren't happy or even really satisfied if you describe the method to them. 2. It's unproductive. Describing the method to a layperson enough to expose the trick usually doesn't put the person any closer to being able to do the trick. It especially won't put a novice any closer to even understanding why the trick works - which is actually the interesting and often quite subtle part. 3. It's boring. Truly understanding the principles behind why a particular trick that a performer has perfected to the point of working really well, in fact works so well, is usually not only complicated but complex. The "meta" behind magic is something non-magicians (and even some less experienced magicians) are completely unaware of. It's this hidden structure and deep theory that's actually the fun part. But learning what magicians call "the real work" behind an effect takes a significant amount of time. For example, I wanted to start getting into the deep work behind one card effect magicians call ACAAN. The plot is simple. A randomly named card appears at a randomly named number of cards down in a shuffled deck. The effect is over a hundred years old and there are well over a dozen books focused solely on it (I own several). There are hundreds of different "methods" which can be used to accomplish that one "effect". I can already do a serviceable ACAAN effect several different ways. Yet I went to an intensive three day workshop focused on teaching nothing but ACAAN. After those three days I now feel like I have a good start on really mastering the effect but I still have a long way to go - and honestly, now that I have insight into the deep work on ACAAN taught directly by one of the greatest living masters of ACAAN, I'm not sure I'm willing to put the level of work into it required to take my ACAAN to a level I'd enjoy performing. Finally, far from being some kind of secretive fraternity, most magicians would be delighted to teach you how to create an effect yourself because many of us are worried magic is a dying art form. However, that requires someone interested enough to devote at least a couple hours to it. Even if you never perform what you learn, you'll get some understanding of how and why magic can be such fun to study and develop - and maybe get bitten by the bug. But if you just want a one sentence drive-by "quickie" exposure of one method of one effect - most magicians have learned the kindest thing we can do in response to such temporary and fleeting curiosity is a polite fiction about some "Magicians Code."

danrl 3y ago

I can second that. I published a Copperfield illusion analysis and got approached to take it down from other magicians (not Copperfield himself). I left it out there in the open. For me, trying to crack the puzzle is part of the fun and why I spend money seeing magic shows multiple times. My blog post which they asked me to take down: https://danrl.com/magic-mail https://danrl.com/magic-mail

jacquesm 3y ago
Classy.

tshaddox 3y ago

The thing that bugs me about the magic community is the sentiment that “the trick is better when you don’t know how it works.” It’s obviously understandable to protect your secrets to make your performances harder to copy or even to license them to other magicians, but don’t tell me that I will enjoy the trick less if I know how it worked! I assure you that is not the case!

jrockway 3y ago
I agree with you completely. I enjoy it more when I know how it's done but don't notice it myself. Kind of like woodworking where someone patches a hole in the wood and you don't notice it, but they point it out anyway. With all that information, you can say "wow, I still don't even see it really" which is more impressive than just not noticing at first glance. The extra information proves how good the illusion actually is. (Penn & Teller obviously based their career around this stuff. I imagine many of the HN types also like Penn & Teller a lot as a result.) I am pretty sure it's mostly "I don't want someone else to steal this." Generally, I'm pretty unconcerned about telling people unimplemented ideas. If they want to rearrange their life to "steal" my idea, good for them. But they probably won't be able to execute it as well, so it's not really a concern I have. But, magic is tough... you want to have new material for your acts, and if someone beats you to the punch, you don't get paid. So I see why magicians are paranoid. But if we get a new generation of Penns and Tellers, I'd personally be happy.
lesinski 3y ago
There are most definitely performances that you will enjoy less if you learn how it works. You're trading off "knowing" for being suspended in awe or mystery.
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jfengel 3y ago
You should go out and learn some magic. There are plenty of books, videos, etc. There's actually less to learn than you might think. The vast majority of magic comes down to a handful of basic principles. What the magician adds is showmanship, and a butt-ton of practice. Once you know the basic principles, you can usually figure out the tricks. It might take multiple viewings -- which is part of the reason that it's less impressive to explain the trick. Once seen, it's hard to un-see it. Even performing the same trick twice identically gives the audience a huge opportunity to figure out what to look for. What the magician really wants is your respect for how much work went into making it work out. The trickiness is usually not that big of an insight. The hard part is that it takes hours and hours and hours to learn to, say, deal a card from the bottom of the deck while making it look exactly as if it were drawn from the top. It's taking a deeply unnatural motion and making it look as if it were a different, natural motion. So from the magician's point of view, you really would be disappointed to hear "All I did was to put your card on the bottom of the deck and deal it out." It's easy to describe and hard to do -- the least rewarding kind of skill. Most magicians already know how everybody else's tricks are done. Stealing tricks isn't really the issue. What they really want to do is steal the trick and make it their own -- which may involve elaborate construction. Many magicians are pretty competent engineers, and the big acts all have a team of engineers in their workshop. So really, if you want to know how the trick is done, go read some magic books. There are fewer secrets than you think. Once you've got the basics, watching a magic act is like solving a puzzle. It's more fun than having them tell you the solution. And you can really respect the effort that went into making it happen.

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