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Similarly, there are many public school horror stories. For example, despite spending $21k/student, making it the third-highest funded school system in the coun

Similarly, there are many public school horror stories. For example, despite spending $21k/student, making it the third-highest funded school system in the country, 23 Baltimore schools failed to produce a single student with basic math proficiency.[1] One of my friends went to a school where she was beaten every day and the teachers had totally given up and most of them did not teach. Unfortunately, we need much more data than we have. The article mentions school quality is often not the driving reason for homeschooling, but you can definitely imagine public schools where almost any level of homeschooling is a better alternative. [1] https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore#:~:text=The%20Maryland%20State%20Department%20of%20Education%20recently%20released,percent%20could%20not%20do%20math%20at%20grade%20level https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-r.... My children are in public school, but I am not sure if they will stay there. Even in "good" schools, there's many problems (especially in middle schools) and a lot of time is wasted if your kids have any academic ability at all.

psychlops 3y ago
I doubt if homeschooling would work in Baltimore either.
- whatshisface 3y ago
  What "different" schools allow parents to do is pull the top 1% of lucky students out to escape. Maybe most of the parents in the low cost of living areas can't give any time to their children because they've got three jobs, but there are always going to be the few that can. The same goes for a few who can one way or another afford private school. It's better that three percent get through than none.
  - jewayne 3y ago
    Well, unless having the three percent get through makes it impossible to improve the condition of the other 97%. Survivorship bias is our favorite logical fallacy here in the US.
    - whatshisface 3y ago
      Yeah, if you reduce the number of frogs in the pot while keeping the burner setting constant, the ones remaining will boil sooner.
orochimaaru 3y ago
School is parents + school. I would say about 60% parenting and 40% school. If you don’t push your kid academically nothing is going to happen. Peer groups matter. In “good” schools you’re optimizing the peer group. A good/bad school rating has little to do with teacher capability.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  So when do we start blaming parents instead of schools? And saying, “this is what you get, take it or leave it, you have to put effort in too”? Parents treat themselves as customers expecting a turnkey service, when instead they are stakeholders with their own book of work and responsibilities they need to be accountable for to deliver the environment and education their child will need to become a functioning member of society.
  - huytersd 3y ago
    This aspect is so different from South and East Asian society. We expect little from the teachers (not to say they’re bad), the majority of the onus and blame lies with the parent.
  - Amezarak 3y ago
    It sounds like the article is about parents holding themselves fully accountable for their children’s education. The problem is what you do with the parents who do not care at all. People making these statements that “it’s about the parents” - well, it has some truth to it. But when 10% of the students are running the halls, screaming and fighting, beating random kids, having sex and doing drugs in the bathrooms, and assaulting teachers who don’t care anymore, then it doesn’t matter what the other 90% of the parents are doing.
  - nradov 3y ago
    We started blaming parents long, long ago and never stopped. Unfortunately that's not effective in many cases. A lot of parents are ineffectual, apathetic, or shameless. Blaming them might make the rest of us feel morally superior but it doesn't improve outcomes for their children. And for older children, peers tend to influence them more than parents anyway. Turning around a failing student will often require separating them from their current friends. Tough to do when you can't afford to move to a better school district.
escapedmoose 3y ago
Baltimore’s government has been corrupt af for years for some reason or another. In this circumstance, they should be treated as an outlier imo

psychlops 3y ago

I doubt if homeschooling would work in Baltimore either.

whatshisface 3y ago
What "different" schools allow parents to do is pull the top 1% of lucky students out to escape. Maybe most of the parents in the low cost of living areas can't give any time to their children because they've got three jobs, but there are always going to be the few that can. The same goes for a few who can one way or another afford private school. It's better that three percent get through than none.
- jewayne 3y ago
  Well, unless having the three percent get through makes it impossible to improve the condition of the other 97%. Survivorship bias is our favorite logical fallacy here in the US.
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    Yeah, if you reduce the number of frogs in the pot while keeping the burner setting constant, the ones remaining will boil sooner.

orochimaaru 3y ago

School is parents + school. I would say about 60% parenting and 40% school. If you don’t push your kid academically nothing is going to happen. Peer groups matter. In “good” schools you’re optimizing the peer group. A good/bad school rating has little to do with teacher capability.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
So when do we start blaming parents instead of schools? And saying, “this is what you get, take it or leave it, you have to put effort in too”? Parents treat themselves as customers expecting a turnkey service, when instead they are stakeholders with their own book of work and responsibilities they need to be accountable for to deliver the environment and education their child will need to become a functioning member of society.
- huytersd 3y ago
  This aspect is so different from South and East Asian society. We expect little from the teachers (not to say they’re bad), the majority of the onus and blame lies with the parent.
- Amezarak 3y ago
  It sounds like the article is about parents holding themselves fully accountable for their children’s education. The problem is what you do with the parents who do not care at all. People making these statements that “it’s about the parents” - well, it has some truth to it. But when 10% of the students are running the halls, screaming and fighting, beating random kids, having sex and doing drugs in the bathrooms, and assaulting teachers who don’t care anymore, then it doesn’t matter what the other 90% of the parents are doing.
- nradov 3y ago
  We started blaming parents long, long ago and never stopped. Unfortunately that's not effective in many cases. A lot of parents are ineffectual, apathetic, or shameless. Blaming them might make the rest of us feel morally superior but it doesn't improve outcomes for their children. And for older children, peers tend to influence them more than parents anyway. Turning around a failing student will often require separating them from their current friends. Tough to do when you can't afford to move to a better school district.

escapedmoose 3y ago

Baltimore’s government has been corrupt af for years for some reason or another. In this circumstance, they should be treated as an outlier imo