6 ms·

how is it a "virtue signal"? what are they signalling? i'm curious where morality fits in to anything in your worldview if telling the (well-documented) histor

by durkie 3y ago

how is it a "virtue signal"? what are they signalling? i'm curious where morality fits in to anything in your worldview if telling the (well-documented) history of a forcible displacement of a people is "virtue signalling" and "getting the morality into it".

riffic 3y ago
a signal of competence, by fundamentally understanding how domains work.
dijit 3y ago
Virtue signaling is the expression of a conspicuous, self-righteous moral viewpoint with the intent of communicating good character. It doesn't actually have to be virtuous, it only needs to signal virtue to others. Virtue signalling usually does not genuinely solve anything anyway it's merely supposed to impress upon you that "this person is good", that's the entire goal. Whether it's meaningful or not doesn't enter into it.
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  A prime example: "Acknowledging that you're on Comanche (or whoever) land". This "acknowledgment" never seems to involve paying any rent to the Comanche for being on "their land", nor doing anything else that actually benefits the Comanche. Taking the 15 seconds to add this to your social media profile means you can signal to everyone what a Good Person you are without ever having to actually do anything.
  - pookha 3y ago
    I like your example. The Comanche were imperialists that almost exterminated the Apache....Raided a thousand miles into Mexico and into Tropical environments. Killed everything in sight. Wiped out thousands of naive white settlers. And when they killed it wasn't quick. Many accounts of them skinning people alive (some children). US was only able to get a handle on the Comanche by killing off their food supply, and that was deep into the 1870's. After they surrendered the war chief (who was psychotic) became a successful rancher and would go on hunts with US presidents. Which just goes to show how small the line between full blown raider and adjusted law abiding member of society is. And maybe that's why people feel the need to virtue signal. subconscious hedge.
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    Some indigenous people believe land acknowledgements are a good 1st step. Some believe they are a waste of time. But the 2nd group don't claim the 1st group don't exist. Voluntary land tax programs exist.[1] They seem to benefit from land acknowledgements. [1] https://nativegov.org/news/voluntary-land-taxes/ https://nativegov.org/news/voluntary-land-taxes/
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      It doesn't matter what they "believe". They get little or no tangible benefit from someone posting that bullshit (and it is bullshit) on their Facebook or Twitter profile. > Voluntary land tax programs exist. I'm not seeing any actual dollar figures there, nor in any of the linked examples, except the Duwamish site which mentions some guy paying $18/month. The mean rent for a one bedroom apartment in Seattle is around $2,000/month. Paying a token amount like that doesn't make it any less virtue-signaling.
- PhasmaFelis 3y ago
  Mind you, plenty of people blithely dismiss any stated belief that they disagree with as "virtue signalling." Basically implying that their opinions are so objectively correct that no one could sincerely disagree, only fake it to appeal to malcontents, who are presumably also faking it.
  - Hizonner 3y ago
    That's too charitable. People's usual motivation to complain about "virtue signaling" is that they personally are amoral pieces of garbage, and would prefer that other people not punish amoral-piece-of-garbageness in any way, because they would find that inconvenient.
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  Is it inconceivable their stated goal of enabling the Chagossians to profit from .io sales was even part of their motivation?
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  On the other hand, the article could also just be the expression of a strongly held personal belief about some injustice in the world. The virtue signaling meme tends to be a way of denigrating strongly held beliefs that conflict with the person calling “virtue signaling” in some way, and frankly is a virtue signal of its own. There’s literally no need to call people out for “virtue signaling” other than to stand up themselves for other like minded (often conservative) folks. Frankly I read this as more a strongly held personal belief that something was wrong and they are doing their small thing against it. They could have just done their actions in silence, but that’s not nearly as effective as enlisting your fellows in the cause you identify. I personally didn’t know any of the history, and while I take the stated facts with a grain of salt. But I found it an interesting read, and if it is largely true, what happened is outrageous. I’m not divesting my TLD, but it definitely sickens me to know this happened and my country is complicit and actively a part of it.
  - Apocryphon 3y ago
    There should be a term to describe those who hurl accusations of virtue signaling as an act of virtue signaling. Virtue countersignaling, if you will.
  - hurrdurr56 3y ago
    Oh, oh yeah? W-well I am just so upset about historical injustice that I am boycotting ALL the TLDs. I just care so much more than the rest of you I guess. Yeah that's right, get on my level, shirtlords. I'm not "virtue signaling", I really care, like totally.
    - undersuit 3y ago
      That was always allowed. What's your IP?
      - hurrdurr56 3y ago
        IP Addresses are very problematic as they were developed primarily by White Male Cis-Het Oppressors who undoubtedly incorporated their implicit biases into the system in order to cyber-colonize marginalized persons. They were developed in the United States which literally had legalized slavery for much of its history. If you use an IP Address you are literally supporting slavery and systemic racism. Wow just wow.
javajosh 3y ago
I think you ably demonstrate the all or nothing fallacy that powers this type of bully advocacy. My way or the highway is used to get people on the same page at first. Then it's used to make more and more tenuous assertions about morality, assertions which coincidentally conform very specifically and in great detail to the needs wants desires and worldviews of the bully. The sooner the victim rejects the entire program, the better. Morality is not and has never been a simple issue easily resolved by dogma. In fact, I'd argue the the worst periods of human misery are dominated by dogmatic thinking and righteous bullying. It is bitterly ironic that people who enjoy the fruit of freedom willfully seek to undermine that progress. It is everyone's right to be stupid if they so choose but so too. Is it my right to judge them self-destructive and contemptible.

by durkie 3y ago

riffic 3y ago

a signal of competence, by fundamentally understanding how domains work.

dijit 3y ago

Virtue signaling is the expression of a conspicuous, self-righteous moral viewpoint with the intent of communicating good character. It doesn't actually have to be virtuous, it only needs to signal virtue to others. Virtue signalling usually does not genuinely solve anything anyway it's merely supposed to impress upon you that "this person is good", that's the entire goal. Whether it's meaningful or not doesn't enter into it.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
A prime example: "Acknowledging that you're on Comanche (or whoever) land". This "acknowledgment" never seems to involve paying any rent to the Comanche for being on "their land", nor doing anything else that actually benefits the Comanche. Taking the 15 seconds to add this to your social media profile means you can signal to everyone what a Good Person you are without ever having to actually do anything.
- pookha 3y ago
  I like your example. The Comanche were imperialists that almost exterminated the Apache....Raided a thousand miles into Mexico and into Tropical environments. Killed everything in sight. Wiped out thousands of naive white settlers. And when they killed it wasn't quick. Many accounts of them skinning people alive (some children). US was only able to get a handle on the Comanche by killing off their food supply, and that was deep into the 1870's. After they surrendered the war chief (who was psychotic) became a successful rancher and would go on hunts with US presidents. Which just goes to show how small the line between full blown raider and adjusted law abiding member of society is. And maybe that's why people feel the need to virtue signal. subconscious hedge.
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  Some indigenous people believe land acknowledgements are a good 1st step. Some believe they are a waste of time. But the 2nd group don't claim the 1st group don't exist. Voluntary land tax programs exist.[1] They seem to benefit from land acknowledgements. [1] https://nativegov.org/news/voluntary-land-taxes/ https://nativegov.org/news/voluntary-land-taxes/
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    It doesn't matter what they "believe". They get little or no tangible benefit from someone posting that bullshit (and it is bullshit) on their Facebook or Twitter profile. > Voluntary land tax programs exist. I'm not seeing any actual dollar figures there, nor in any of the linked examples, except the Duwamish site which mentions some guy paying $18/month. The mean rent for a one bedroom apartment in Seattle is around $2,000/month. Paying a token amount like that doesn't make it any less virtue-signaling.
PhasmaFelis 3y ago
Mind you, plenty of people blithely dismiss any stated belief that they disagree with as "virtue signalling." Basically implying that their opinions are so objectively correct that no one could sincerely disagree, only fake it to appeal to malcontents, who are presumably also faking it.
- Hizonner 3y ago
  That's too charitable. People's usual motivation to complain about "virtue signaling" is that they personally are amoral pieces of garbage, and would prefer that other people not punish amoral-piece-of-garbageness in any way, because they would find that inconvenient.
pseudalopex 3y ago
Is it inconceivable their stated goal of enabling the Chagossians to profit from .io sales was even part of their motivation?
fnordpiglet 3y ago
On the other hand, the article could also just be the expression of a strongly held personal belief about some injustice in the world. The virtue signaling meme tends to be a way of denigrating strongly held beliefs that conflict with the person calling “virtue signaling” in some way, and frankly is a virtue signal of its own. There’s literally no need to call people out for “virtue signaling” other than to stand up themselves for other like minded (often conservative) folks. Frankly I read this as more a strongly held personal belief that something was wrong and they are doing their small thing against it. They could have just done their actions in silence, but that’s not nearly as effective as enlisting your fellows in the cause you identify. I personally didn’t know any of the history, and while I take the stated facts with a grain of salt. But I found it an interesting read, and if it is largely true, what happened is outrageous. I’m not divesting my TLD, but it definitely sickens me to know this happened and my country is complicit and actively a part of it.
- Apocryphon 3y ago
  There should be a term to describe those who hurl accusations of virtue signaling as an act of virtue signaling. Virtue countersignaling, if you will.
- hurrdurr56 3y ago
  Oh, oh yeah? W-well I am just so upset about historical injustice that I am boycotting ALL the TLDs. I just care so much more than the rest of you I guess. Yeah that's right, get on my level, shirtlords. I'm not "virtue signaling", I really care, like totally.
  - undersuit 3y ago
    That was always allowed. What's your IP?
    - hurrdurr56 3y ago
      IP Addresses are very problematic as they were developed primarily by White Male Cis-Het Oppressors who undoubtedly incorporated their implicit biases into the system in order to cyber-colonize marginalized persons. They were developed in the United States which literally had legalized slavery for much of its history. If you use an IP Address you are literally supporting slavery and systemic racism. Wow just wow.

javajosh 3y ago

I think you ably demonstrate the all or nothing fallacy that powers this type of bully advocacy. My way or the highway is used to get people on the same page at first. Then it's used to make more and more tenuous assertions about morality, assertions which coincidentally conform very specifically and in great detail to the needs wants desires and worldviews of the bully. The sooner the victim rejects the entire program, the better. Morality is not and has never been a simple issue easily resolved by dogma. In fact, I'd argue the the worst periods of human misery are dominated by dogmatic thinking and righteous bullying. It is bitterly ironic that people who enjoy the fruit of freedom willfully seek to undermine that progress. It is everyone's right to be stupid if they so choose but so too. Is it my right to judge them self-destructive and contemptible.