11 ms·

I fail to see how it's related to free will. I can look at the digits of PI and press d and f depending it's odd or even. So what does it prove? Nothing. Being

I fail to see how it's related to free will. I can look at the digits of PI and press d and f depending it's odd or even. So what does it prove? Nothing. Being able to beat this algorithm doesn't mean that I have free will, and choose to fall into patterns (knowing the PI solution exists) doesn't mean I don't.

richk449 3y ago
It’s explained on the linked site that the free will comment is a joke.
- vkgfx 3y ago
  It seems that it tests both free will and sense of humor.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
simonh 3y ago
If the sequence is from an external source or reference, then the individual key presses are not a result of your free choices.
- erhaetherth 3y ago
  He's free to copy who/whatever he pleases.
  - simonh 3y ago
    Of course, but if I do a marathon on a scooter am I really doing a marathon?
praptak 3y ago
If your behaviour can be predicted then you don't have free will. Obviously you can argue whether this really predicts human behaviour or even the above implication itself (for example I think compatibilism kinda disagrees with it) but I'd say it is related.
- ozim 3y ago
  Is it true? From my point of view, that someone can predict what I will do from past behavior does not imply I don't have a free will. Only way that would prove I don't have a free will is someone who would predict my behavior without knowing anything about my past, like a fortune teller that would tell my friend (because if fortune teller tells it to me it might be self fulfilling prophecy :D) something I would do; without having any interaction with me.
  - yreg 3y ago
    I think it is true. If something could predict all your actions with 100% certainty then you have no free will - you have no ability to decide for a different outcome than the one that is predetermined. Although if it wasn't like that and you could do truly random decisions, I'm not sure what that says about your free will either. If I had to guess, I don't think I have a free will. In my opinion my actions are a deterministic function of the state of my mind (including memory, personality) + input. I have no choice in the matter, only an illusion of one.
    - chii 3y ago
      Unless you decide to act irrationally at some point, and at others you act rationally, and switch back and forth using a coin flip.
      - yreg 3y ago
        The prediction machine in the though experiment would make the prediction after it knows the result of the coin flip and before the action is done by the subject.
    - hnfong 3y ago
      > In my opinion my actions are a deterministic function of the state of my mind (including memory, personality) + input. I have no choice in the matter, only an illusion of one It's important to note that as far as materialist physics goes, "you" are literally "your state of mind (including memory, personality) and input". The fact that this system (i.e. "you") produces an apparently deterministic result doesn't mean that "you" didn't do it. The common confusion comes from the fact that systems cannot in general predict their own outputs without going through the required computational process. I think it's related to the concept of "computational irreducibility". So "you" as a system needs to go through the set of motions to figure out what you eventually decide to do. Before the deliberation you can't predict the result, and thus it "feels as if" "free will" is a messy indeterministic process. But that's not a given. Weird things happen when some other system can predict "you". The problem there is that if "you" can be simulated, you don't know which "you" is "real". But the mere fact that your state of mind and inputs will deterministically produce decisions doesn't mean "you" don't have a choice. In fact it is opposite -- "you" do have a choice, and _only_ the system "you" makes the choice (and thus it is determined solely by "you", hence, deterministic!)
lupire 3y ago
It's a simple example that defeats a naive adversary trying to prove their free will. It's easy to create a more complex example to defeat a more advanced adversary. (Many exist.)
- mapcars 3y ago
  It doesn't actually, if it goes lower than 100% it means the prediction failed already.

richk449 3y ago

It’s explained on the linked site that the free will comment is a joke.

vkgfx 3y ago
It seems that it tests both free will and sense of humor.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

simonh 3y ago

If the sequence is from an external source or reference, then the individual key presses are not a result of your free choices.

erhaetherth 3y ago
He's free to copy who/whatever he pleases.
- simonh 3y ago
  Of course, but if I do a marathon on a scooter am I really doing a marathon?

praptak 3y ago

If your behaviour can be predicted then you don't have free will. Obviously you can argue whether this really predicts human behaviour or even the above implication itself (for example I think compatibilism kinda disagrees with it) but I'd say it is related.

ozim 3y ago
Is it true? From my point of view, that someone can predict what I will do from past behavior does not imply I don't have a free will. Only way that would prove I don't have a free will is someone who would predict my behavior without knowing anything about my past, like a fortune teller that would tell my friend (because if fortune teller tells it to me it might be self fulfilling prophecy :D) something I would do; without having any interaction with me.
- yreg 3y ago
  I think it is true. If something could predict all your actions with 100% certainty then you have no free will - you have no ability to decide for a different outcome than the one that is predetermined. Although if it wasn't like that and you could do truly random decisions, I'm not sure what that says about your free will either. If I had to guess, I don't think I have a free will. In my opinion my actions are a deterministic function of the state of my mind (including memory, personality) + input. I have no choice in the matter, only an illusion of one.
  - chii 3y ago
    Unless you decide to act irrationally at some point, and at others you act rationally, and switch back and forth using a coin flip.
    - yreg 3y ago
      The prediction machine in the though experiment would make the prediction after it knows the result of the coin flip and before the action is done by the subject.
  - hnfong 3y ago
    > In my opinion my actions are a deterministic function of the state of my mind (including memory, personality) + input. I have no choice in the matter, only an illusion of one It's important to note that as far as materialist physics goes, "you" are literally "your state of mind (including memory, personality) and input". The fact that this system (i.e. "you") produces an apparently deterministic result doesn't mean that "you" didn't do it. The common confusion comes from the fact that systems cannot in general predict their own outputs without going through the required computational process. I think it's related to the concept of "computational irreducibility". So "you" as a system needs to go through the set of motions to figure out what you eventually decide to do. Before the deliberation you can't predict the result, and thus it "feels as if" "free will" is a messy indeterministic process. But that's not a given. Weird things happen when some other system can predict "you". The problem there is that if "you" can be simulated, you don't know which "you" is "real". But the mere fact that your state of mind and inputs will deterministically produce decisions doesn't mean "you" don't have a choice. In fact it is opposite -- "you" do have a choice, and _only_ the system "you" makes the choice (and thus it is determined solely by "you", hence, deterministic!)

lupire 3y ago

It's a simple example that defeats a naive adversary trying to prove their free will. It's easy to create a more complex example to defeat a more advanced adversary. (Many exist.)

mapcars 3y ago
It doesn't actually, if it goes lower than 100% it means the prediction failed already.