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> Just like the low-spec M3 14" has one fewer Thunderbolt port, it also doesn't officially support Thunderbolt 4 (like M1/M2 before it) I believe this is due t
by mastercheif 3y ago
> Just like the low-spec M3 14" has one fewer Thunderbolt port, it also doesn't officially support Thunderbolt 4 (like M1/M2 before it)
I believe this is due to the TB4 spec requiring support for two external displays on a single port. The base spec M series SoCs only support one external display.
I’d expect the ports to work identically to a TB4 port in all other aspects.
- lathiat 3y agoI really, really wish they would fix this silly display scan-out limitation. I gave them a (frustrating) pass on the M1 given it was the first evolution from iPhone/iPad where it wouldn't have mattered. But seems silly to have made it all the way to the M3. Wanting to dock onto two displays even at the low end doesn't seem like such a niche use-case. I'm sure there is some kind of technical explanation but both Intel and NVIDIA seemed to managed 3+ scanouts even on low end parts for a long time.
- stouset 3y ago> Wanting to dock onto two displays even at the low end doesn't seem like such a niche use-case. I mean, it almost certainly is? I would guess a majority of the low-end SKUs are rarely if ever attached to one external display. Two would be rarer still.
- timschmidt 3y agoIntel has supported three external displays on integrated graphics since Ivy Bridge in 2012.
- stouset 3y agoI’m not sure what that has to do with it being a niche use-case or not.
- timschmidt 3y agoNiche or not, being more than a decade behind the competition is gauche.
- stouset 3y agoOn one somewhat niche feature, on the lowest SKU in that particular product lineup. I can pick areas where Apple is beating Intel. Different products have different feature matrices, news at 11.
- bee_rider 3y agoThey also don’t show any signs of catching up to the Raspberry Pi’s on GPIO capabilities.
- timschmidt 3y agoThey did with https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/79047/intel-quark-soc.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/series/... but sadly seem to have killed off that product line.
- bee_rider 3y agoThat was Intel, not Apple. It does seem like a shame, though—Intel’s IOT department seems to try lots of things, but not get many hits.
- reactordev 3y agoApple does not compete on checkboxes. If they deemed is necessary to remove, there’s a reason. Not saying I agree, just that’s how they operate. If there isn’t a need to support 3 displays then they won’t, regardless if the “competition” did it years prior.
- fsckboy 3y ago>there’s a reason they operate 100% on profitability, not what's technically feasible. They are extremely focused on making money. Yes, there is a reason after all.
- justinclift 3y agoAt a ~recent work place the entire floor of developers had (Intel) MacBook Pros with dual 24" monitors. Some of them were trying out Apple Silicon replacements, though I'm not aware of what they did monitor wise. Probably used the excuse to buy a single large ultrawide each instead, though I don't actually know. ;)
- stouset 3y agoWhich workplaces are these that buy low-end laptops for their employees but shell out for dual monitor workstations?
- walterbell 3y agoExternal displays can be used for multiple generations of laptop hardware. Unlike CPUs, displays are not improving dramatically each year. MacBook Air is a world-leading form factor for travel, it's not "low-end". MBA with extra storage/RAM can exceed revenue of base MBP.
- stouset 3y agoWe’re still talking the low end of this product line. If you’re buying two monitors for your employees, I’m not sure you’re skimping on the cost between an M3 and an M3 Pro.
- walterbell 3y agoAs stated, it's not about cost. The travel form factor of MBA is not available for MBP, for any price.
- justinclift 3y agoWhat's Apple high end laptop product line?
- justinclift 3y ago> low-end laptops Heh, that's not how I would describe MacBook Pros. ;)
- ffgjgf1 3y agoIt’s a bit funny though that their competitors don’t seem to have any issues supporting this on pretty much all of their products.
- squeaky-clean 3y agoWell the number with two screens would be zero, because you can't do it. That doesn't mean people don't want to do it because 0% of the laptops do it. They're just unable to.
- saagarjha 3y agoDisplay pipelines are expensive and take area.
- frutiger 3y agoEasy to say but hard to prove. How much more expensive would an MBP be if they supported it? How many fewer units would they shift? Those are harder questions to answer. We could assume Apple crunched the numbers. Or perhaps they just stuck to the status quo. Only an insider or decision maker (maybe that’s you) knows.
- saagarjha 3y agoI mean they are physical things and you can look at how big they are. But sure the rest of how that factors into cost and sales is harder to figure out, yes.
- whynotminot 3y agoI think their assumption is that if you’re the kind of pro that needs that many monitors, you’ll upgrade to the better chips they sell. But it’s a frustrating limitation and remains one of the only areas their old intel based laptops were better at.
- KeplerBoy 3y agoAn assumption they are so unsure about, that they kind of force that decision on their users.
- d3w4s9 3y agoFor the past 3 years, including with the latest laptops, "better chip" means 14" M* Pro starting at $1,999. $1,299 M1/M2 or $1,599 Macbook Pro does not support that. When you can find support for dual external display on $600 Windows laptops, or Intel Macbooks since at least 2012. By any standard this is an embarrassment and a regression.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
- spiralpolitik 3y agoThe technical explanation is that on the base M1/M2 SoC there is one Thunderbolt bus that supports 2 display outputs. On the MacBook Air one output is connected to the internal display leaving one output for an external display. (The Mac Mini that uses the same SoC is limited to 2 external displays for the same reason) To support more displays they would have to add support for a second Thunderbolt bus to the base SoC.
- walterbell 3y agoAllow the user to turn off the internal display in favor of 2 external displays. That would be a usable docked configuration.
- shanghaikid 3y agoyou are right, but apple won't do this.
- walterbell 3y agoindependent repair technician demo video to mux MBA internal and external display?
- richardg_ 3y agoIs this an actual hardware issue though? One issue is MacOS has never supported DisplayPort MST (Multi-Stream Transport) EVER as far as I can tell. MST allows for multiple display streams to be natively sent over a single connection for docks or daisy chaining monitors. Back on Intel Mac's if you had a dock with 2 displays or daisy chained 2 together you would get mirrored displays. The exact same Mac/displays in boot camp MST would work perfectly. 1x display per Thunderbolt 4 port is the worst!
- AlphaSite 3y agoYou can get multiple displays from a single port, the hubs are just expensive.
- fsckboy 3y ago>I'm sure there is some kind of technical explanation I'm sure it's a marketing explanation: they make bigger margins on more expensive machines, and they need some feature differentiators to nudge people to move up. 2 extra displays is a poweruser/pro feature. They make their own silicon, it's not like they're shy about designing hardware, if they wanted to stuff features into the lower end books they easily could.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- saagarjha 3y agoIt's because they don't want to put a Thunderbolt controller on the right side of the computer
- happymellon 3y agoIs this a change to the spec, or did they skirt around that previously, because I didn't think they supported more than one screen per port on the M1/2?
- neolefty 3y agoI'm running an M1 Max with two Thunderbolt docks, and each drives 2 4k displays, runs great, although it's kinda overkill. But it does require the docks; you can't connect directly.