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> it’s missing the point of a hyper-transactional, individualist economy that’s only getting more so. This runs counter to the fact that we have seen a massive

> it’s missing the point of a hyper-transactional, individualist economy that’s only getting more so. This runs counter to the fact that we have seen a massive increase in labor organization and union activity over the last 5 years so I would consider rethinking that perspective. https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/recent-data-confirms-surge-in-union-activity-in-us-workplaces-us/ https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/recent-data-confirms-... https://news.gallup.com/poll/510281/unions-strengthening.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/510281/unions-strengthening.asp... > it’s not like we’re miners, stuck in the same valley in WV by a variety of conditions, so might as all band together and fight Duke Energy. Yes but your are subject to an increasingly consolidated group of employers that are all generally described as “near monopolies” by the stock market analysts themselves and as we saw with the credit tightening cycle startups only are a viable counterweight as an employer when credit is cheap. You are also increasingly subject to competing with people who live on and require far less money to live in the places they work outside of western developed nations. Any handwaving about “superior quality from the US” is just whistling past the graveyard as monopolistic corporations don’t have to care about quality. Anecdata: any post on HN complaining about a major corporations support — they don’t have to care about quality when they own the market. https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/learn/monopoly-by-the-numbers https://www.openmarketsinstitute.org/learn/monopoly-by-the-n... “The US economy is at least 50% more concentrated today than in 2005, they write.” https://www.axios.com/2022/05/26/new-paper-finds-monopolies-contribute-to-inflation https://www.axios.com/2022/05/26/new-paper-finds-monopolies-... > Also I cant imagine how a startup scales if unions get involved. And yet data to that effect has been collected and found no visible impact on small business: https://www.princeton.edu/~davidlee/wp/unionbf.pdf https://www.princeton.edu/~davidlee/wp/unionbf.pdf

dogman144 3y ago
An increase in labor activity correlates to the hyper-individualized, commoditized economy - as a reaction to it, yes. Will it impact it? I don’t think so. We are an information-product economy. The outcome of it is Product A/Business A can get swapped out by a few clicks from the user to Product B/Business B. And in the process the hyper-organized, powerful Union A can’t do anything about it. Yes, there are all sorts of economist side-channels you can get into on this topic, but suffice to say the user-choice and de-frictioning around that choice has never been so powerful, and unions are from an age and of an approach from before this happened. Maybe to your point, B2B software will get impacted by organized labor, ie where there are consequential vendor lock-ins. But from that angle - do I sign a vendor agreement with a union shop, and the likely delays and quirks on product features and support? I’m not sure I would. To my earlier point, the same dynamic benefits employees, why let a union slow that? As long as the user has as strong a choice on dictating revenue as it does currently, I’m not sure what point you’re making? Labor is a reaction but on the supply side, and no impact on the demand side which is what I’m referring to as the driver. To your second, you’re looking at a domestic employment market when the reality is an international one. I didn’t mention once my American-ness protects my income. But my global-ness and commitment to keeping that perspective, plus learning other (human) languages, does. In large I feel your response missed the point I’m making.
- cristiancavalli 3y ago
  You offer no data or citation to evidence your claims so I won’t bother attempting to refute your opinions. > In large I feel your response missed the point I’m making. Which is what? Beyond casting aspersions and making claims with no data the only point I see you making is: “I think I can do better by myself” which is an assertion laughably disproved by the basic history of labor organization. I feel you missed the point when your argument failed to make cogent case as to why unions would actually hurt your job prospects beyond “a feeling.” Come back with some data and maybe you might actually have point that can be argued.
  - dogman144 3y ago
    You linked a paper covering small businesses surveyed from 1983-1999 as a valid data point to explain the impact on of organized labor on the modern technology startup in 2023. I don’t think a lack of linked data is the issue in finding shared understanding on this topic.
    - cristiancavalli 3y ago
      Hey at least I offered sources and if you want to throw out ~20 years of data that is pretty damn recent on the premise that business today is so different from the 80s then that’s your no true Scotsman to deal with. Funnily enough some of the most successful business minds today came up in the 80s and 90s and in that culture of business so I think you’re fooling yourself if you think it’s so different today. Also I offered many sources to your total lack of, so being disingenuous about the amount of sources I offered in construction of my argument further leads my to believe you have nothing of actual substance to proffer either in fact or opinion.

dogman144 3y ago

An increase in labor activity correlates to the hyper-individualized, commoditized economy - as a reaction to it, yes. Will it impact it? I don’t think so. We are an information-product economy. The outcome of it is Product A/Business A can get swapped out by a few clicks from the user to Product B/Business B. And in the process the hyper-organized, powerful Union A can’t do anything about it. Yes, there are all sorts of economist side-channels you can get into on this topic, but suffice to say the user-choice and de-frictioning around that choice has never been so powerful, and unions are from an age and of an approach from before this happened. Maybe to your point, B2B software will get impacted by organized labor, ie where there are consequential vendor lock-ins. But from that angle - do I sign a vendor agreement with a union shop, and the likely delays and quirks on product features and support? I’m not sure I would. To my earlier point, the same dynamic benefits employees, why let a union slow that? As long as the user has as strong a choice on dictating revenue as it does currently, I’m not sure what point you’re making? Labor is a reaction but on the supply side, and no impact on the demand side which is what I’m referring to as the driver. To your second, you’re looking at a domestic employment market when the reality is an international one. I didn’t mention once my American-ness protects my income. But my global-ness and commitment to keeping that perspective, plus learning other (human) languages, does. In large I feel your response missed the point I’m making.

cristiancavalli 3y ago
You offer no data or citation to evidence your claims so I won’t bother attempting to refute your opinions. > In large I feel your response missed the point I’m making. Which is what? Beyond casting aspersions and making claims with no data the only point I see you making is: “I think I can do better by myself” which is an assertion laughably disproved by the basic history of labor organization. I feel you missed the point when your argument failed to make cogent case as to why unions would actually hurt your job prospects beyond “a feeling.” Come back with some data and maybe you might actually have point that can be argued.
- dogman144 3y ago
  You linked a paper covering small businesses surveyed from 1983-1999 as a valid data point to explain the impact on of organized labor on the modern technology startup in 2023. I don’t think a lack of linked data is the issue in finding shared understanding on this topic.
  - cristiancavalli 3y ago
    Hey at least I offered sources and if you want to throw out ~20 years of data that is pretty damn recent on the premise that business today is so different from the 80s then that’s your no true Scotsman to deal with. Funnily enough some of the most successful business minds today came up in the 80s and 90s and in that culture of business so I think you’re fooling yourself if you think it’s so different today. Also I offered many sources to your total lack of, so being disingenuous about the amount of sources I offered in construction of my argument further leads my to believe you have nothing of actual substance to proffer either in fact or opinion.