5 ms·

While it has ultimately come up in this discussion my honest input is most of the comments I see here evaded the elephant in the room of all of it which is tha

by daeros 3y ago

While it has ultimately come up in this discussion my honest input is most of the comments I see here evaded the elephant in the room of all of it which is that Google doesn't do a good enough job of vetting the people who advertise with it, its search engines have repeatedly allowed malware to slip through the cracks leading to people being exploited and nothing stops those same malware developers from serving up ads on YouTube with the self same malware and engaging in malvertisement. "Entitled" came up a lot, but I would have to disagree. Au contraire, YouTube is the one that feels "Entitled" to show me advertisements, even when that feature potentially exposes me to the risk of Malware.

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
Even if the advertising were perfect in every way I'd run ad-block. you don't get free access to my time, there will never be a point where I'm willing to spend time watching an advertisement or sifting through advertisements looking for real content. I haven't watched television regularly since the mid-90's specifically due to the commercials, I'll be damned if I'm going to do it online. And I don't give a shit if you think I'm entitled or not, it's my time not yours.
BLKNSLVR 3y ago
Absolutely the case for me too. Google ad for a scam site made to look like a legitimate Australian Bank: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-messages-calls-emails-fake-ads-to-get-money/101167848 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-m... Youtube's home page seems to always have, at the top, some kind of get-rich-quick video advertisement when I (rarely these days) visit it. Far from trying to improve on this, it feels as if Google/YT are actively trying to normalise scam advertising. I just cannot support that, at all, ever. If Google has no mechanism to prevent their platform from being used by scammers, I feel it's my responsibility that their platform doesn't reach my screen, lest I, or my family members fall for a scam - which can be psychologically damaging beyond the potential financial damage. I've mentioned before that this isn't a problem Google are inspired to solve, since their current advertising scheme successfully scales to the size of the Web. However, appropriately policing advertising to ensure scams don't get through would seriously affect the ability to scale. And it's the scaling that makes the billions. Regulate Internet advertising the same way television advertising is regulated. Colour me unsympathetic at my most forgiving.
CSMastermind 3y ago
> YouTube is the one that feels "Entitled" to show me advertisements They show you advertisements in exchange for the free content they provide. You can just as easily not visit the website if you don't feel like the service they provide is worth the risk of being shown the ads they serve.
- leventonportera 3y ago
  This is false logic. Youtube is free to not show anyone anything - once they send me data and it leaves their system, they have no claim to it. When I shout on a public street "sing me the Francoise Hardy version of I'll Be Seeing You," no one has to reply. If they do reply, but they decide to sing a 2 minute ad for a pyramid scheme first, I am free to cover my ears till the song comes on. Google's servers have a public internet IP. I can "shout" a request to them. The data they send back to me, is mine to do with as I please. I am free on My computer, from the memory buffer on a RAM stick I own, to ignore some of the bytes, in My RAM change some of the bytes, or save some of the bytes to a file on my HDD. They are free to ignore any request I shout at them, but they have zero say in what I do on equipment they do not own.
  - gretch 3y ago
    > Youtube is free to not show anyone anything - once they send me data and it leaves their system, they have no claim to it. Okay well they're about to not show you the videos. You support their latest announcement right? It is completely in line with the the philosophy you just put forward.
    - leventonportera 3y ago
      If you read the entire comment before replying to the comment, you would have your answer before you asked the question. "They are free to ignore any request I shout at them" I don't have any opinion on, nor care about their latest announcement to do with their hardware as they please. Their announcements are theirs and of no concern of mine. It's just a random website the has content duplicates available at a hundred more places. Bing video search has fifty times more results than youtube for example for any item I search. Given that, of course, they're always going to show me their videos, because about a day after whatever change they make, software (that runs on my computer against my data) will catch up. They've made changes like this many times over many years. For about a week awhile ago the ads were not blocked and I stopped clicking youtube videos and just typed the title into bing and in 5 seconds played the same video from another source. Worked 100% of the time. Sorry if that's not the gotcha you were going for.
radicalriddler 3y ago
Yup, this is exactly why I installed ublock origin on my grandparents computers. Malware and scams are too prevalent across the web, and unfortunately, google SERP and Youtube aren't immune.
garciansmith 3y ago
While I agree to an extent, to me the larger issue is that Youtube has become the default video hosting platform with no real competition. I adblock everything but I am sympathetic to the idea that video hosting costs money. But I watch, on average, less than 1 hour of Youtube videos a month, so paying for Youtube makes no sense. Plus I have issues with privacy (part of the reason I've never created a Youtube account). The videos I do watch on Youtube are short ones for a specific need: e.g., a company showing me how to install their product in an easy way (I'd prefer a write up, but sometimes those are so bad you need to rely on a video), or a simple how-to on changing the battery in X model of car. So when I do need to go to Youtube for something, often its because the video is nowhere else. People don't even think of hosting it elsewhere. I don't watch any long form stuff there, don't listen to music there, etc., so paying for premium makes no sense. I wish there was a free and open video platform that had a funding model like Wikipedia, where people could upload things that they had no intention of "monetizing".
- ohhnoodont 3y ago
  Especially when youtube's early success was built on piracy. That continued for a long time even after Google's acquisition. Arguably still is a major contributor regardless of Content ID.
  - garciansmith 3y ago
    Yes, true. Gain traction through piracy to get to an immense size, let everyone use the service for free to grow even larger, introduce ads but only easily blockable ones, then slowly tighten the vise.
    - cglong 3y ago
      From my understanding, this is the exact model Crunchyroll used too to gain a virtual monopoly on anime streaming.
  - daveevad 3y ago
    Between Youtube and PirateBay, who do you think has distributed more unauthorized copyrighted works?
tjpnz 3y ago
I ditched Chrome after a Google ad hijacked the browser and attempted download malware onto my device. If you value your own security you absolutely should be using a browser with support for ad blocking extensions. At the same time Google must be held criminally liable for the massive amounts of fraud their ad business facilitates.
- gruez 3y ago
  [deleted]
  - tjpnz 3y ago
    Chrome for Android doesn't support ad blockers. The ad was served through Double Click on a non-Google property.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
piyush_soni 3y ago
I don't understand. Youtube is not forcing you to watch their videos, and that they show ads is an information you are already aware of before watching them. So I don't understand how it is YouTube's "Entitlement".
hypercube33 3y ago
Look if YouTube red was still a thing I'd pay for it. I really hate youtubes suggestions and shorts need to go away but charging me extra for YouTube music isn't an incentive it's a deterrent.

by daeros 3y ago

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

Even if the advertising were perfect in every way I'd run ad-block. you don't get free access to my time, there will never be a point where I'm willing to spend time watching an advertisement or sifting through advertisements looking for real content. I haven't watched television regularly since the mid-90's specifically due to the commercials, I'll be damned if I'm going to do it online. And I don't give a shit if you think I'm entitled or not, it's my time not yours.

BLKNSLVR 3y ago

Absolutely the case for me too. Google ad for a scam site made to look like a legitimate Australian Bank: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-messages-calls-emails-fake-ads-to-get-money/101167848 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-21/scammers-using-text-m... Youtube's home page seems to always have, at the top, some kind of get-rich-quick video advertisement when I (rarely these days) visit it. Far from trying to improve on this, it feels as if Google/YT are actively trying to normalise scam advertising. I just cannot support that, at all, ever. If Google has no mechanism to prevent their platform from being used by scammers, I feel it's my responsibility that their platform doesn't reach my screen, lest I, or my family members fall for a scam - which can be psychologically damaging beyond the potential financial damage. I've mentioned before that this isn't a problem Google are inspired to solve, since their current advertising scheme successfully scales to the size of the Web. However, appropriately policing advertising to ensure scams don't get through would seriously affect the ability to scale. And it's the scaling that makes the billions. Regulate Internet advertising the same way television advertising is regulated. Colour me unsympathetic at my most forgiving.

CSMastermind 3y ago

> YouTube is the one that feels "Entitled" to show me advertisements They show you advertisements in exchange for the free content they provide. You can just as easily not visit the website if you don't feel like the service they provide is worth the risk of being shown the ads they serve.

leventonportera 3y ago
This is false logic. Youtube is free to not show anyone anything - once they send me data and it leaves their system, they have no claim to it. When I shout on a public street "sing me the Francoise Hardy version of I'll Be Seeing You," no one has to reply. If they do reply, but they decide to sing a 2 minute ad for a pyramid scheme first, I am free to cover my ears till the song comes on. Google's servers have a public internet IP. I can "shout" a request to them. The data they send back to me, is mine to do with as I please. I am free on My computer, from the memory buffer on a RAM stick I own, to ignore some of the bytes, in My RAM change some of the bytes, or save some of the bytes to a file on my HDD. They are free to ignore any request I shout at them, but they have zero say in what I do on equipment they do not own.
- gretch 3y ago
  > Youtube is free to not show anyone anything - once they send me data and it leaves their system, they have no claim to it. Okay well they're about to not show you the videos. You support their latest announcement right? It is completely in line with the the philosophy you just put forward.
  - leventonportera 3y ago
    If you read the entire comment before replying to the comment, you would have your answer before you asked the question. "They are free to ignore any request I shout at them" I don't have any opinion on, nor care about their latest announcement to do with their hardware as they please. Their announcements are theirs and of no concern of mine. It's just a random website the has content duplicates available at a hundred more places. Bing video search has fifty times more results than youtube for example for any item I search. Given that, of course, they're always going to show me their videos, because about a day after whatever change they make, software (that runs on my computer against my data) will catch up. They've made changes like this many times over many years. For about a week awhile ago the ads were not blocked and I stopped clicking youtube videos and just typed the title into bing and in 5 seconds played the same video from another source. Worked 100% of the time. Sorry if that's not the gotcha you were going for.

radicalriddler 3y ago

Yup, this is exactly why I installed ublock origin on my grandparents computers. Malware and scams are too prevalent across the web, and unfortunately, google SERP and Youtube aren't immune.

garciansmith 3y ago

While I agree to an extent, to me the larger issue is that Youtube has become the default video hosting platform with no real competition. I adblock everything but I am sympathetic to the idea that video hosting costs money. But I watch, on average, less than 1 hour of Youtube videos a month, so paying for Youtube makes no sense. Plus I have issues with privacy (part of the reason I've never created a Youtube account). The videos I do watch on Youtube are short ones for a specific need: e.g., a company showing me how to install their product in an easy way (I'd prefer a write up, but sometimes those are so bad you need to rely on a video), or a simple how-to on changing the battery in X model of car. So when I do need to go to Youtube for something, often its because the video is nowhere else. People don't even think of hosting it elsewhere. I don't watch any long form stuff there, don't listen to music there, etc., so paying for premium makes no sense. I wish there was a free and open video platform that had a funding model like Wikipedia, where people could upload things that they had no intention of "monetizing".

ohhnoodont 3y ago
Especially when youtube's early success was built on piracy. That continued for a long time even after Google's acquisition. Arguably still is a major contributor regardless of Content ID.
- garciansmith 3y ago
  Yes, true. Gain traction through piracy to get to an immense size, let everyone use the service for free to grow even larger, introduce ads but only easily blockable ones, then slowly tighten the vise.
  - cglong 3y ago
    From my understanding, this is the exact model Crunchyroll used too to gain a virtual monopoly on anime streaming.
- daveevad 3y ago
  Between Youtube and PirateBay, who do you think has distributed more unauthorized copyrighted works?

tjpnz 3y ago

I ditched Chrome after a Google ad hijacked the browser and attempted download malware onto my device. If you value your own security you absolutely should be using a browser with support for ad blocking extensions. At the same time Google must be held criminally liable for the massive amounts of fraud their ad business facilitates.

gruez 3y ago
[deleted]
- tjpnz 3y ago
  Chrome for Android doesn't support ad blockers. The ad was served through Double Click on a non-Google property.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

piyush_soni 3y ago

I don't understand. Youtube is not forcing you to watch their videos, and that they show ads is an information you are already aware of before watching them. So I don't understand how it is YouTube's "Entitlement".

hypercube33 3y ago

Look if YouTube red was still a thing I'd pay for it. I really hate youtubes suggestions and shorts need to go away but charging me extra for YouTube music isn't an incentive it's a deterrent.