6 ms·

Zima Board – Hackable Single Board Server

42 points by ta8645 3y ago

ta8645 3y ago
No affiliation whatsoever, just thought this looked like an interesting and affordable product.
skibz 3y ago
Oh dear... this is the last thing I needed to see after payday!
sillywalk 3y ago
Interesting. Apollo lake, 2xGB Ethernet, mini DisplayPort, 2xSATA, 2/4/8GB RAM, 32GB eMMC, passively cooled. 6W TDP. Zima. I remember seeing that sign on Babylon 5.
- tyingq 3y ago
  Zima was also a fruity malt liquor beverage that was sort of popular in the 1990s. https://vinepair.com/articles/ntk-zima/ https://vinepair.com/articles/ntk-zima/
  - sillywalk 3y ago
    I never had the privilege of tasting Zima. B5 (a 90s sci-fi show) had a sign for Zima in it (and got no $ for it )
  - voidfunc 3y ago
    I'm surprised Zima hasn't made a permanent comeback. It's always remembered rather fondly by folks.
LudoTheGreat 3y ago
I've had a 832 for almost a year now and it's great, but I would not buy another one. You can find small form factor, business class PCs all day long on your market place of choice for the same price with better hardware. Install Debian and CasaOS on them and you have the same functionality with much better performance and probably more options to upgrade down the road.
c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
This really irks me. We're calling a machine with a Celeron CPU a "server" now? And being expandable is now "hackable?"
- Narishma 3y ago
  > We're calling a machine with a Celeron CPU a "server" now? What's wrong with that? A server can have any kind of CPU.
  - c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
    >What's wrong with that? Functioning as a server is a use case. Labelling the desktop / embedded grade hardware as server grade is false marketing in my my opinion. Celeron is a desktop or embedded grade CPU (as per Intel's own classification). >A server can have any kind of CPU. You can use any kind of CPU to "serve." From a hardware point of view, there are categories of CPUs that are classified as server grade with specific feature sets. Intel Atom (C series) and Xeon are server grade (again per Intel's classification). The lines between Intel's server and desktop grade CPUs used to be very clear, however they are blurring over time. For example, new Core series CPUs support ECC memory which used to be a server specific feature however they still lack RAS features. Xeons have support much more memory, have higher core counts, have ECC and RAS, support multi sockets, etc.
    - colejohnson66 3y ago
      Just because “server” has the connotation of a 28+ core-each dual-Xeon setup does not mean that this isn’t a server. After all, a “server” just means a computer that serves content, and this qualifies. No one is recommending one put this processor in a data center, and, at the same time, no one is recommending I put a multi-thousand dollar Xeon in my NAS.
      - c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
        >a “server” just means a computer that serves content From a software point of view, you are correct. You can use any machine you want for that use case. It's one thing to say - "You can use this computer as a server / to serve content." It's something different to say "this is computer is a single board server" when it actually isn't. I know I'm being pedantic but I work in Product for a server manufacturer. I'll stop now.
T3OU-736 3y ago
I planned to use the ZimaBoard as a small OpnSense platform. Sadly, the NICs are Broadcom which has an unhealthy tendency to fail in weird way when throughput is pushed (lucky enough that I have fiber Intarwebz, so Gig is not unreasonable). I am not alone, so it is not one-off. [1] The solution is use an Intel NIC off the PCIe slot exposed by ZimaBoard, but there isn't a decent bracket to hold it. There is a 3D printable design [2] (unaffiliated), but ehhh, as been pointed out, used small business PCs are plentiful. I went with a used Sophos SG115 rev.2 which uses Intel Pro/1000 NICs, which works splendidly. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ZimaBoard/comments/12gij2d/zimaboard_opnsense_wan_port_dropping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ZimaBoard/comments/12gij2d/zimaboar... [2] https://www.printables.com/model/215289-zimaboard-wall-mount-for-generic-pcie-cards https://www.printables.com/model/215289-zimaboard-wall-mount...
- Fischgericht 3y ago
  Agreed, I'd never ever buy a product that has a Broadcom NIC or any other networking equipment based on Broadcom NICs. As an example, their 10G BCM53161 controllers have a power consumption of TWICE of the competing Realteks RTL8372. However, the Zimaboard specs claim to be using Realtek 8111H. Maybe they changed the design recently? Now, the 8111H also has a hell lot of issues, again recently with Linux Kernel 6.2, but it's nowhere as bad as the Broadcom stuff. For maybe $2 more they could have used some PROVEN (aka old) Intel NIC instead. (The recent Intel 2.5G I225-VI and 226-V ALSO have a bunch of problems/bugs, sigh) In general, quality of NIC chips has gone down during the last 10 years. If you want something to be used for critical/stable networking, you really have to do some research.
  - bcrl 3y ago
    Intel NICs have had similar problems. One of my circa 2010 servers had the NIC lock up in such a way that passthru traffic to the IPMI was blocked preventing remote management access. I drove 3.5 hours to the data center to power cycle the system. Investigation eventually turned up an errata for exactly that issue. Suffice it to say that I decommissioned that server as soon as I could.
mt_ 3y ago
E-waste recycling.
npace12 3y ago
the only thing i can think seeing this is "you should go back to your strip malls and drink your Zimas and Smirnoff Ices"
reverius42 3y ago
Just bought one recently. Waiting for it to arrive and replace a giant desktop tower with a passive cooled 6w tiny thing.
eptcyka 3y ago
No ECC?
e12e 3y ago
Looks interesting. But there's no case to augment it? If you screw on a SSD and connect via sata, the cable loop sits on the end, ready to get snagged and pulled out? Seems like a missed opportunity to not have power over Ethernet support?
redder23 3y ago
Not again, they use HN as advertising for their shitty scam board. Its supposed to have 32 Gigs MMC, mine only has 14 Gigs show up and the support ignores me. China trash, buy something from a more reputable company. They also used AI to create some cringe promo website that tried super hard to connect their "hacker board" with Cyberpunk 2077. Do not trust them! Theirs "OS" is a shitty front-end for Docker that has zero concerns for security.
- duskwuff 3y ago
  > They also used AI to create some cringe promo website that tried super hard to connect their "hacker board" with Cyberpunk 2077. Do not trust them! I'm not sure how much of it is "AI" and how much is just terrible copywriting. The other posts on the blog are incoherent filler text. https://www.zimaboard.com/blade/the-story-behind-zimablade/ https://www.zimaboard.com/blade/the-story-behind-zimablade/
oneplane 3y ago
Oh come on, not again. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37819114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37819114 In short: this is just re-packaged underperforming SoC overstock and neither special nor worth the money. The same money buys better things. A little bit extra money buys order of magnitude better things.
- viraptor 3y ago
  Please post some links for the magnitude better things of the same features (no fan, small systems, comparable ports, Intel)
  - ColoursofOSINT 3y ago
    I mean, it's nice to have the ports, but you have externally power the drives because the PSU is 3A, so one for the computer and that leaves 2A. Most HDDs need 2A to spin up so you can only have one drive. So no redundancy. If I was to make a NAS (which is what I would be interested in) I would pay triple for something like the NAS killer 6 [3]. To be fair the Zimacube might be more of a challenge to this (but its not out yet). I think its interesting though for a small, fanless sever. But (understandably, it's cheap) if you wanted something more, an extra $200 would be get you much more. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. As for alternatives 1: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uptimelab/compute-blade https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uptimelab/compute-blade ($60 + need pi) 2: Zimablade (lol). Here's a solid blog post on it: https://www.martinrowan.co.uk/2023/01/is-a-zimaboard-the-right-choice-for-me/#comments https://www.martinrowan.co.uk/2023/01/is-a-zimaboard-the-rig... [1]: https://shop.zimaboard.com/collections/all-products/products/zimaboard-single-board-server https://shop.zimaboard.com/collections/all-products/products... [2]: https://versus.com/en/intel-celeron-n3350-vs-intel-celeron-n3450 https://versus.com/en/intel-celeron-n3350-vs-intel-celeron-n... [3]: https://forums.serverbuilds.net/t/guide-nas-killer-6-0-ddr4-is-finally-cheap/13956 https://forums.serverbuilds.net/t/guide-nas-killer-6-0-ddr4-...
    - viraptor 3y ago
      So Kickstarter compute blade which is not shipping yet, zimacube which is not shipping yet, or build-your-own for more money which is not really the same category as the zimaboard. Those are not great alternatives today.
hulitu 3y ago
Server, 200 $, 2 SATA ports. Way too expensive for what it offers.
Protostome 3y ago
This is probably a noob question, but i'm going to ask it anyway - what's the difference between Zima and Rpi (100$) and such (I know there are hardware differences, but do you really need intel quad core CPU for NAS?)
- derekp7 3y ago
  Depending on your use case. For example, I was using a RPi 4 with a large external drive to receive backups over ssh. Come to find out, the performance bottleneck was ssh encryption overhead -- ssh server is single threaded, so it only used one cpu core, and got about 20 MB/s instead of the expected > 100 MB/s I can get out of even a low end x86 board. On the other hand, a RPi 4 was cheap enough that if you needed to work on someone's Windows box, you can plop one of these down to get them "back in business" real quick for browsing the internet, video streaming, email, etc.

42 points by ta8645 3y ago

ta8645 3y ago

No affiliation whatsoever, just thought this looked like an interesting and affordable product.

skibz 3y ago

Oh dear... this is the last thing I needed to see after payday!

sillywalk 3y ago

Interesting. Apollo lake, 2xGB Ethernet, mini DisplayPort, 2xSATA, 2/4/8GB RAM, 32GB eMMC, passively cooled. 6W TDP. Zima. I remember seeing that sign on Babylon 5.

tyingq 3y ago
Zima was also a fruity malt liquor beverage that was sort of popular in the 1990s. https://vinepair.com/articles/ntk-zima/ https://vinepair.com/articles/ntk-zima/
- sillywalk 3y ago
  I never had the privilege of tasting Zima. B5 (a 90s sci-fi show) had a sign for Zima in it (and got no $ for it )
- voidfunc 3y ago
  I'm surprised Zima hasn't made a permanent comeback. It's always remembered rather fondly by folks.

LudoTheGreat 3y ago

I've had a 832 for almost a year now and it's great, but I would not buy another one. You can find small form factor, business class PCs all day long on your market place of choice for the same price with better hardware. Install Debian and CasaOS on them and you have the same functionality with much better performance and probably more options to upgrade down the road.

c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago

This really irks me. We're calling a machine with a Celeron CPU a "server" now? And being expandable is now "hackable?"

Narishma 3y ago
> We're calling a machine with a Celeron CPU a "server" now? What's wrong with that? A server can have any kind of CPU.
- c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
  >What's wrong with that? Functioning as a server is a use case. Labelling the desktop / embedded grade hardware as server grade is false marketing in my my opinion. Celeron is a desktop or embedded grade CPU (as per Intel's own classification). >A server can have any kind of CPU. You can use any kind of CPU to "serve." From a hardware point of view, there are categories of CPUs that are classified as server grade with specific feature sets. Intel Atom (C series) and Xeon are server grade (again per Intel's classification). The lines between Intel's server and desktop grade CPUs used to be very clear, however they are blurring over time. For example, new Core series CPUs support ECC memory which used to be a server specific feature however they still lack RAS features. Xeons have support much more memory, have higher core counts, have ECC and RAS, support multi sockets, etc.
  - colejohnson66 3y ago
    Just because “server” has the connotation of a 28+ core-each dual-Xeon setup does not mean that this isn’t a server. After all, a “server” just means a computer that serves content, and this qualifies. No one is recommending one put this processor in a data center, and, at the same time, no one is recommending I put a multi-thousand dollar Xeon in my NAS.
    - c_o_n_v_e_x 3y ago
      >a “server” just means a computer that serves content From a software point of view, you are correct. You can use any machine you want for that use case. It's one thing to say - "You can use this computer as a server / to serve content." It's something different to say "this is computer is a single board server" when it actually isn't. I know I'm being pedantic but I work in Product for a server manufacturer. I'll stop now.

T3OU-736 3y ago

I planned to use the ZimaBoard as a small OpnSense platform. Sadly, the NICs are Broadcom which has an unhealthy tendency to fail in weird way when throughput is pushed (lucky enough that I have fiber Intarwebz, so Gig is not unreasonable). I am not alone, so it is not one-off. [1] The solution is use an Intel NIC off the PCIe slot exposed by ZimaBoard, but there isn't a decent bracket to hold it. There is a 3D printable design [2] (unaffiliated), but ehhh, as been pointed out, used small business PCs are plentiful. I went with a used Sophos SG115 rev.2 which uses Intel Pro/1000 NICs, which works splendidly. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ZimaBoard/comments/12gij2d/zimaboard_opnsense_wan_port_dropping/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ZimaBoard/comments/12gij2d/zimaboar... [2] https://www.printables.com/model/215289-zimaboard-wall-mount-for-generic-pcie-cards https://www.printables.com/model/215289-zimaboard-wall-mount...

Fischgericht 3y ago
Agreed, I'd never ever buy a product that has a Broadcom NIC or any other networking equipment based on Broadcom NICs. As an example, their 10G BCM53161 controllers have a power consumption of TWICE of the competing Realteks RTL8372. However, the Zimaboard specs claim to be using Realtek 8111H. Maybe they changed the design recently? Now, the 8111H also has a hell lot of issues, again recently with Linux Kernel 6.2, but it's nowhere as bad as the Broadcom stuff. For maybe $2 more they could have used some PROVEN (aka old) Intel NIC instead. (The recent Intel 2.5G I225-VI and 226-V ALSO have a bunch of problems/bugs, sigh) In general, quality of NIC chips has gone down during the last 10 years. If you want something to be used for critical/stable networking, you really have to do some research.
- bcrl 3y ago
  Intel NICs have had similar problems. One of my circa 2010 servers had the NIC lock up in such a way that passthru traffic to the IPMI was blocked preventing remote management access. I drove 3.5 hours to the data center to power cycle the system. Investigation eventually turned up an errata for exactly that issue. Suffice it to say that I decommissioned that server as soon as I could.

mt_ 3y ago

E-waste recycling.

npace12 3y ago

the only thing i can think seeing this is "you should go back to your strip malls and drink your Zimas and Smirnoff Ices"

reverius42 3y ago

Just bought one recently. Waiting for it to arrive and replace a giant desktop tower with a passive cooled 6w tiny thing.

eptcyka 3y ago

No ECC?

e12e 3y ago

Looks interesting. But there's no case to augment it? If you screw on a SSD and connect via sata, the cable loop sits on the end, ready to get snagged and pulled out? Seems like a missed opportunity to not have power over Ethernet support?

redder23 3y ago

Not again, they use HN as advertising for their shitty scam board. Its supposed to have 32 Gigs MMC, mine only has 14 Gigs show up and the support ignores me. China trash, buy something from a more reputable company. They also used AI to create some cringe promo website that tried super hard to connect their "hacker board" with Cyberpunk 2077. Do not trust them! Theirs "OS" is a shitty front-end for Docker that has zero concerns for security.

duskwuff 3y ago
> They also used AI to create some cringe promo website that tried super hard to connect their "hacker board" with Cyberpunk 2077. Do not trust them! I'm not sure how much of it is "AI" and how much is just terrible copywriting. The other posts on the blog are incoherent filler text. https://www.zimaboard.com/blade/the-story-behind-zimablade/ https://www.zimaboard.com/blade/the-story-behind-zimablade/

oneplane 3y ago

Oh come on, not again. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37819114 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37819114 In short: this is just re-packaged underperforming SoC overstock and neither special nor worth the money. The same money buys better things. A little bit extra money buys order of magnitude better things.

viraptor 3y ago
Please post some links for the magnitude better things of the same features (no fan, small systems, comparable ports, Intel)
- ColoursofOSINT 3y ago
  I mean, it's nice to have the ports, but you have externally power the drives because the PSU is 3A, so one for the computer and that leaves 2A. Most HDDs need 2A to spin up so you can only have one drive. So no redundancy. If I was to make a NAS (which is what I would be interested in) I would pay triple for something like the NAS killer 6 [3]. To be fair the Zimacube might be more of a challenge to this (but its not out yet). I think its interesting though for a small, fanless sever. But (understandably, it's cheap) if you wanted something more, an extra $200 would be get you much more. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. As for alternatives 1: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uptimelab/compute-blade https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/uptimelab/compute-blade ($60 + need pi) 2: Zimablade (lol). Here's a solid blog post on it: https://www.martinrowan.co.uk/2023/01/is-a-zimaboard-the-right-choice-for-me/#comments https://www.martinrowan.co.uk/2023/01/is-a-zimaboard-the-rig... [1]: https://shop.zimaboard.com/collections/all-products/products/zimaboard-single-board-server https://shop.zimaboard.com/collections/all-products/products... [2]: https://versus.com/en/intel-celeron-n3350-vs-intel-celeron-n3450 https://versus.com/en/intel-celeron-n3350-vs-intel-celeron-n... [3]: https://forums.serverbuilds.net/t/guide-nas-killer-6-0-ddr4-is-finally-cheap/13956 https://forums.serverbuilds.net/t/guide-nas-killer-6-0-ddr4-...
  - viraptor 3y ago
    So Kickstarter compute blade which is not shipping yet, zimacube which is not shipping yet, or build-your-own for more money which is not really the same category as the zimaboard. Those are not great alternatives today.

hulitu 3y ago

Server, 200 $, 2 SATA ports. Way too expensive for what it offers.

Protostome 3y ago

This is probably a noob question, but i'm going to ask it anyway - what's the difference between Zima and Rpi (100$) and such (I know there are hardware differences, but do you really need intel quad core CPU for NAS?)

derekp7 3y ago
Depending on your use case. For example, I was using a RPi 4 with a large external drive to receive backups over ssh. Come to find out, the performance bottleneck was ssh encryption overhead -- ssh server is single threaded, so it only used one cpu core, and got about 20 MB/s instead of the expected > 100 MB/s I can get out of even a low end x86 board. On the other hand, a RPi 4 was cheap enough that if you needed to work on someone's Windows box, you can plop one of these down to get them "back in business" real quick for browsing the internet, video streaming, email, etc.