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I have heard similar stories from US teachers I hike with. Parents will side with their kinds or just not care and school administration will side with the pare

I have heard similar stories from US teachers I hike with. Parents will side with their kinds or just not care and school administration will side with the parents or do nothing. This leaves teachers having to deal with discipline issues but not having any tools or support to actually enforce discipline. They all want to leave the job or take retirement as soon as they can.

brycewray 3y ago
Relative of a US teacher and can confirm. The COVID lockdown made it worse but things were deteriorating before that.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
I’m sorry but good. A mass resigning or mass exodus from that industry would be good for everyone involved. Teachers should never have been disciplinarians. Their role is to teach kids. If kids are a behavior problem, the teacher should be allowed to expel/ban them from the classroom. This is the only thing that school administration needs to back teachers on. Education being compulsory for students who don’t want it is an extreme social mistake and one we should remedy as soon as possible. These disruptive students do far more damage to other good students than the benefit they provide if you “try hard” to make them work anyway. Not worth it. The status quo in America gives teachers far too much power to decide the lifetime earning potential and fate of young students. Teachers are extremely tyrannical and that fact is never brought up at all in education discourse. (not even by the “anti teacher” right wingers)
- andrewprock 3y ago
  The power of education has nothing to do with the teachers. It has to do with hiring for professional employment with degree requirements (e.g. management, government, lab techs, etc). There are tons of people who can do various jobs but do not have the required (often extraneous) certification. Parents are not chasing learning, they are chasing certification. Those two things correlate, but not enough to satisfy parents. A good example of this is journalism, which used to require little to no certification, but which today can require masters degrees for some positions. In the end, the people that know and learn will have longer more productive careers, but there are enough sinecures in Korean (and US) society that the value of certification is overweighted.
- avmich 3y ago
  > Education being compulsory for students who don’t want it is an extreme social mistake and one we should remedy as soon as possible. I disagree. Children often don't see the value of education - partially because it's not shown to them.
  - mc32 3y ago
    They also don’t yet have sufficient development to understand why.
- pard68 3y ago
  > Education being compulsory for students who don’t want it is an extreme social mistake and one we should remedy as soon as possible This is foolish. Contrary to the current insistence, children do not know what they want. They do not understand what they need. They are not small adults, they are children and children don't think ten minutes ahead let alone decades. Adults with the best interest of children (ideally their parents) are the ones responsible for thinking of their futures and making them do stuff today so they can have a good tomorrow.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    > don't think ten minutes ahead let alone decades I have to say that given what adults are currently doing to the planet, I'm not convinced that they're capable of planning decades ahead or thinking of the best interests of their children either. Like, I'm not thrilled to be the perpetual doomsayer of HN, but reading someone talking about decades into the future in the context of children really bums me out these days. As a child I really thought the adults would sort things out, but increasingly it just looks like doom, and that's hard to accept.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago
  I teach 3rd - 5th grade at a selective private school. The students are extraordinarily well behaved compared to the public school classrooms I've been in; the difference is night and day. But classroom management / "discipline" is still a thing. Getting a group of 18 nine-year-olds to quiet down at the right time takes a certain degree of skill, and that will always be a part of teaching, at least for this age group.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
There is a huge variety in teaching experiences across the USA, because each district is really different in terms of students and resources. So a teacher in a rich suburban school district probably has much more in satisfaction than a teacher in a poor urban or rural district.

brycewray 3y ago

Relative of a US teacher and can confirm. The COVID lockdown made it worse but things were deteriorating before that.

Der_Einzige 3y ago

I’m sorry but good. A mass resigning or mass exodus from that industry would be good for everyone involved. Teachers should never have been disciplinarians. Their role is to teach kids. If kids are a behavior problem, the teacher should be allowed to expel/ban them from the classroom. This is the only thing that school administration needs to back teachers on. Education being compulsory for students who don’t want it is an extreme social mistake and one we should remedy as soon as possible. These disruptive students do far more damage to other good students than the benefit they provide if you “try hard” to make them work anyway. Not worth it. The status quo in America gives teachers far too much power to decide the lifetime earning potential and fate of young students. Teachers are extremely tyrannical and that fact is never brought up at all in education discourse. (not even by the “anti teacher” right wingers)

andrewprock 3y ago
The power of education has nothing to do with the teachers. It has to do with hiring for professional employment with degree requirements (e.g. management, government, lab techs, etc). There are tons of people who can do various jobs but do not have the required (often extraneous) certification. Parents are not chasing learning, they are chasing certification. Those two things correlate, but not enough to satisfy parents. A good example of this is journalism, which used to require little to no certification, but which today can require masters degrees for some positions. In the end, the people that know and learn will have longer more productive careers, but there are enough sinecures in Korean (and US) society that the value of certification is overweighted.
avmich 3y ago
> Education being compulsory for students who don’t want it is an extreme social mistake and one we should remedy as soon as possible. I disagree. Children often don't see the value of education - partially because it's not shown to them.
- mc32 3y ago
  They also don’t yet have sufficient development to understand why.
pard68 3y ago
> Education being compulsory for students who don’t want it is an extreme social mistake and one we should remedy as soon as possible This is foolish. Contrary to the current insistence, children do not know what they want. They do not understand what they need. They are not small adults, they are children and children don't think ten minutes ahead let alone decades. Adults with the best interest of children (ideally their parents) are the ones responsible for thinking of their futures and making them do stuff today so they can have a good tomorrow.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  > don't think ten minutes ahead let alone decades I have to say that given what adults are currently doing to the planet, I'm not convinced that they're capable of planning decades ahead or thinking of the best interests of their children either. Like, I'm not thrilled to be the perpetual doomsayer of HN, but reading someone talking about decades into the future in the context of children really bums me out these days. As a child I really thought the adults would sort things out, but increasingly it just looks like doom, and that's hard to accept.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
I teach 3rd - 5th grade at a selective private school. The students are extraordinarily well behaved compared to the public school classrooms I've been in; the difference is night and day. But classroom management / "discipline" is still a thing. Getting a group of 18 nine-year-olds to quiet down at the right time takes a certain degree of skill, and that will always be a part of teaching, at least for this age group.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

There is a huge variety in teaching experiences across the USA, because each district is really different in terms of students and resources. So a teacher in a rich suburban school district probably has much more in satisfaction than a teacher in a poor urban or rural district.