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It seems that some people easily believe in Israel propaganda without digging the actual reasons, and how can the people know the actual reasons when the facts

It seems that some people easily believe in Israel propaganda without digging the actual reasons, and how can the people know the actual reasons when the facts are all buried together with the rubbles of communication infrastructure and the main offices of reporting news agencies. It is part of international laws and basic human rights that during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mosques, hospitals, news agency offices, schools, civilian homes, etc. As demonsrated in this war, the first casualty is the truth that paved the way to countless atrocities.

invalidname 3y ago
All of those things were bombed by other western democracies in past wars. Maybe Israel lied about this, I don't know. But I do know the Hamas lied about many things. Just now a Hamas representative was interviewed by the BBC claiming they didn't kidnap or target civilians... Wow. The audacity of the lie is staggering. The symbolic nature of the building doesn't appear to be a lie. Since there were many offices in the building it would make sense the Hamas has some offices there. I don't see that as a huge lie. > during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mosques, hospitals, news agency offices, schools, civilian homes, etc. As demonsrated in this war, the first casualty is the truth that paved the way to countless atrocities. It's very evident that you didn't say synagogues... I'm guessing I know where you're coming from to this debate...
bawolff 3y ago
> It is part of international laws and basic human rights that during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mosques, hospitals, news agency offices, schools, civilian homes, etc. Umm you can if they are being used for military purposes.
- archagon 3y ago
  If an entire city is held hostage by a terrorist ruling party, does that mean that you have carte blanche to raze the city and displace or eliminate its civilian population?
  - pxc 3y ago
    A terrorist ruling party that your intelligence agencies funded and armed, early on, and which your ruling party has 'propped up'¹ for decades as both a way to have a convenient enemy and to divide the Palestinian people so as to make impossible the 'two-state solution' that your government is nominally committed to, at that.
    - invalidname 3y ago
      Israel is far from blameless in the rise of Hamas. Especially Benjamin Netanyahu who as an Israeli I would love to see go to trial for supporting Hamas (in addition to his other ongoing corruption charges). Still, there are levels of blame and the current situation. The Palestinians in Gaza are held hostage by an evil organization that keeps escalating and using ceasefires to increase armaments. I would love it if Netanyahu would be out of office right now and someone "competent" were running things. But this is the position we're at.
  - bawolff 3y ago
    > If an entire city is held hostage by a terrorist ruling party Many governments are dictatorships or autocratic. Some are democratic. I dont think it matters. You have the same responsibility to civilians regardless of the form of government. > carte blanche to raze the city Generally not. But you can certainly destroy buildings used for military purposes. Where this conflict falls on this scale is pretty unclear thus far. > eliminate its civilian population Definitely not. Israel has not done this. > displace ... its civilian population? Maybe. There are certain circumstances under the geneva convention where this is allowed, and it seems likely the criteria was met in this conflict. You of course have to let them back once the fighting has subsided.
    - lots2learn 3y ago
      If you agree that you have to let them back as per Geneva, then the solution is obvious: let the 7million refugees back to the lands they were ethnically cleansed from in 1948 and onwards.
victorbjorklund 3y ago
It is 100% legal to bomb targets that have dual use (both civilian and military). That is why it is 100% legal for Ukraine to bomb the kerch bridge. It is a bridge used by both civilians and military.
- hypefi 3y ago
  Are you kidding me? are you comparing a bridge with a hospital full of people, doctors and patients
  - invalidname 3y ago
    Israel didn't bomb a hospital, that was a misfire of their missile. Israel showed that a different hospital is actually used as a base of operations for the Hamas because they know Israel won't bomb it.

invalidname 3y ago

All of those things were bombed by other western democracies in past wars. Maybe Israel lied about this, I don't know. But I do know the Hamas lied about many things. Just now a Hamas representative was interviewed by the BBC claiming they didn't kidnap or target civilians... Wow. The audacity of the lie is staggering. The symbolic nature of the building doesn't appear to be a lie. Since there were many offices in the building it would make sense the Hamas has some offices there. I don't see that as a huge lie. > during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mosques, hospitals, news agency offices, schools, civilian homes, etc. As demonsrated in this war, the first casualty is the truth that paved the way to countless atrocities. It's very evident that you didn't say synagogues... I'm guessing I know where you're coming from to this debate...

bawolff 3y ago

> It is part of international laws and basic human rights that during the war you cannot demolish communication infrastructure, churches, mosques, hospitals, news agency offices, schools, civilian homes, etc. Umm you can if they are being used for military purposes.

archagon 3y ago
If an entire city is held hostage by a terrorist ruling party, does that mean that you have carte blanche to raze the city and displace or eliminate its civilian population?
- pxc 3y ago
  A terrorist ruling party that your intelligence agencies funded and armed, early on, and which your ruling party has 'propped up'¹ for decades as both a way to have a convenient enemy and to divide the Palestinian people so as to make impossible the 'two-state solution' that your government is nominally committed to, at that.
  - invalidname 3y ago
    Israel is far from blameless in the rise of Hamas. Especially Benjamin Netanyahu who as an Israeli I would love to see go to trial for supporting Hamas (in addition to his other ongoing corruption charges). Still, there are levels of blame and the current situation. The Palestinians in Gaza are held hostage by an evil organization that keeps escalating and using ceasefires to increase armaments. I would love it if Netanyahu would be out of office right now and someone "competent" were running things. But this is the position we're at.
- bawolff 3y ago
  > If an entire city is held hostage by a terrorist ruling party Many governments are dictatorships or autocratic. Some are democratic. I dont think it matters. You have the same responsibility to civilians regardless of the form of government. > carte blanche to raze the city Generally not. But you can certainly destroy buildings used for military purposes. Where this conflict falls on this scale is pretty unclear thus far. > eliminate its civilian population Definitely not. Israel has not done this. > displace ... its civilian population? Maybe. There are certain circumstances under the geneva convention where this is allowed, and it seems likely the criteria was met in this conflict. You of course have to let them back once the fighting has subsided.
  - lots2learn 3y ago
    If you agree that you have to let them back as per Geneva, then the solution is obvious: let the 7million refugees back to the lands they were ethnically cleansed from in 1948 and onwards.

victorbjorklund 3y ago

It is 100% legal to bomb targets that have dual use (both civilian and military). That is why it is 100% legal for Ukraine to bomb the kerch bridge. It is a bridge used by both civilians and military.

hypefi 3y ago
Are you kidding me? are you comparing a bridge with a hospital full of people, doctors and patients
- invalidname 3y ago
  Israel didn't bomb a hospital, that was a misfire of their missile. Israel showed that a different hospital is actually used as a base of operations for the Hamas because they know Israel won't bomb it.