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Dirupting enemy communications is a pretty standard goal of any army in a war. I'm more surprised it took this long.

by bawolff 3y ago

bluish29 3y ago
Cutting communication with outside world is a standard step in genocide and committing war crimes too.
- victorbjorklund 3y ago
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  - bluish29 3y ago
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    - hamster77 3y ago
      That wasn’t his point. You threw out an accusation of genocide and he refuted it.
    - fortran77 3y ago
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    - geertj 3y ago
      Ask yourself, if Hamas had the a-bomb, would they hesitate to use it?
      - deleted 3y ago
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      - deleted 3y ago
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  - shihab 3y ago
    Just so everyone understands the scale - Russia killed 550 Ukrainian children in 2.5 yrs of war. In less than 3 weeks, Israel has killed 3000. [1] [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/un-official-warns-hell-is-settling-in-as-it-struggles-with-gaza-humanitarian-crisis#:~:text=The%20Gaza%20health%20ministry%20run,dead%20with%20nearly%203%2C000%20children https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/un-official-warns-hell-is-.... Edit: Could someone please explain why this comment has been flagged?
    - victorbjorklund 3y ago
      Not true. You are comparing independently verified deaths from external sources with Hamas own propaganda. Only in Mauripol russia is believed to have killed around 70 000 civilians.
  - deleted 3y ago
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- fortran77 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- bawolff 3y ago
  I mean, war crimes take place in the context of war, so anything standard during a war would also be pretty common during a war crime. I don't think you can really draw any conclusions from that.
- stjohnswarts 3y ago
  it's also a standard step in shutting down terrorist organizations who need to communicate with the outside world to get their orders (from Iran)
xkekjrktllss 3y ago
the west had a different opinion on russia doing the same in ukraine
- XorNot 3y ago
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- petertodd 3y ago
  Because Russia's invasion is clearly illegal and immoral. Every act they do in furtherance of that goal is a crime. Every bullet fired, every cell phone tower and every power transformer destroyed. Israel is clearly defending themselves against a genocidal adversary who just killed more Jews in one day than any day since the Holocaust. They have every right to invade Gaza to eliminate that threat.
  - logicchains 3y ago
    >Israel is clearly defending themselves against a genocidal adversary who just killed more Jews in one day than any day since the Holocaust And Israel had previously killed way more Palestinian civilians than that. Why is a Jewish life worth more than a Palestinian life?
    - shihab 3y ago
      The ground invasion hasn't even begun, they have already killed 6 times more people than Hamas did. [1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-report-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-re...
  - aaomidi 3y ago
    So the thousands of children killed in Gaza are guilty?
    - djaro 3y ago
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bhouston 3y ago
When it happened in Iran the US opposed it: https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns-in-iran/ https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns-... Right now you can not call ambulances or firetrucks or anything. Not all 2M Palestinians in Gaza are combatants, but I think that some people consider them to be.
- bawolff 3y ago
  > When it happened in Iran the US opposed it: https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns- https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns-... That's not comparable because that is not a military operation and there was no military advantage to the action. > Right now you can not call ambulances or firetrucks or anything. Not all 2M Palestinians in Gaza are combatants, but I think that some people consider them to be. I don't know what people think happens in a war, but generally innocents always pay the price. That's true in this conflict and it is true in literally every other conflict that has happened ever. If only the guilty died in wars, we wouldn't say war is hell. Generally from an international law perspective, the obligation is to ensure that civilian damage is porportional to military advantage. There is no obligation under the geneva convention to never do anything that could harm civilians, it just has to have enough of a military advantage to justify it (this is a gross over simplification)
  - bhouston 3y ago
    bawolff wrote: > Generally from an international law perspective, the obligation is to ensure that civilian damage is porportional to military advantage. This new report from HRW details both Hamas and Israeli war crimes: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-humanitarian-law-apply-israel-and-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-h... On the Israeli side (but you can read about Hamas in the report above): "Israel has also engaged in the collective punishment of Gaza’s population through cutting off food, water, electricity, and fuel. This is a war crime, as is willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need." "There’s also concern about Israel ordering the displacement of much of Gaza’s civilian population, which is permitted only if required for the civilians’ security or imperative military reasons. The civilian population needs to be able to return as soon as possible - permanent displacement is a crime." "In addition, the Israeli occupying authorities have committed and continue to commit other international crimes, including with West Bank settlements. If the occupying power transfers any of its civilian population into the occupied territory, either directly or indirectly, it is a war crime."

Dirupting enemy communications is a pretty standard goal of any army in a war. I'm more surprised it took this long.

bluish29 3y ago

Cutting communication with outside world is a standard step in genocide and committing war crimes too.

victorbjorklund 3y ago
[flagged]
- bluish29 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - hamster77 3y ago
    That wasn’t his point. You threw out an accusation of genocide and he refuted it.
  - fortran77 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - geertj 3y ago
    Ask yourself, if Hamas had the a-bomb, would they hesitate to use it?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- shihab 3y ago
  Just so everyone understands the scale - Russia killed 550 Ukrainian children in 2.5 yrs of war. In less than 3 weeks, Israel has killed 3000. [1] [1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/un-official-warns-hell-is-settling-in-as-it-struggles-with-gaza-humanitarian-crisis#:~:text=The%20Gaza%20health%20ministry%20run,dead%20with%20nearly%203%2C000%20children https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/un-official-warns-hell-is-.... Edit: Could someone please explain why this comment has been flagged?
  - victorbjorklund 3y ago
    Not true. You are comparing independently verified deaths from external sources with Hamas own propaganda. Only in Mauripol russia is believed to have killed around 70 000 civilians.
- deleted 3y ago
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fortran77 3y ago
[flagged]
deleted 3y ago
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bawolff 3y ago
I mean, war crimes take place in the context of war, so anything standard during a war would also be pretty common during a war crime. I don't think you can really draw any conclusions from that.
stjohnswarts 3y ago
it's also a standard step in shutting down terrorist organizations who need to communicate with the outside world to get their orders (from Iran)

xkekjrktllss 3y ago

the west had a different opinion on russia doing the same in ukraine

XorNot 3y ago
[flagged]
petertodd 3y ago
Because Russia's invasion is clearly illegal and immoral. Every act they do in furtherance of that goal is a crime. Every bullet fired, every cell phone tower and every power transformer destroyed. Israel is clearly defending themselves against a genocidal adversary who just killed more Jews in one day than any day since the Holocaust. They have every right to invade Gaza to eliminate that threat.
- logicchains 3y ago
  >Israel is clearly defending themselves against a genocidal adversary who just killed more Jews in one day than any day since the Holocaust And Israel had previously killed way more Palestinian civilians than that. Why is a Jewish life worth more than a Palestinian life?
  - shihab 3y ago
    The ground invasion hasn't even begun, they have already killed 6 times more people than Hamas did. [1] [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-report-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/27/middleeast/gaza-death-toll-re...
- aaomidi 3y ago
  So the thousands of children killed in Gaza are guilty?
  - djaro 3y ago
    [flagged]

bhouston 3y ago

When it happened in Iran the US opposed it: https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns-in-iran/ https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns-... Right now you can not call ambulances or firetrucks or anything. Not all 2M Palestinians in Gaza are combatants, but I think that some people consider them to be.

bawolff 3y ago
> When it happened in Iran the US opposed it: https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns- https://www.state.gov/joint-statement-on-internet-shutdowns-... That's not comparable because that is not a military operation and there was no military advantage to the action. > Right now you can not call ambulances or firetrucks or anything. Not all 2M Palestinians in Gaza are combatants, but I think that some people consider them to be. I don't know what people think happens in a war, but generally innocents always pay the price. That's true in this conflict and it is true in literally every other conflict that has happened ever. If only the guilty died in wars, we wouldn't say war is hell. Generally from an international law perspective, the obligation is to ensure that civilian damage is porportional to military advantage. There is no obligation under the geneva convention to never do anything that could harm civilians, it just has to have enough of a military advantage to justify it (this is a gross over simplification)
- bhouston 3y ago
  bawolff wrote: > Generally from an international law perspective, the obligation is to ensure that civilian damage is porportional to military advantage. This new report from HRW details both Hamas and Israeli war crimes: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-humanitarian-law-apply-israel-and-gaza https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/27/how-does-international-h... On the Israeli side (but you can read about Hamas in the report above): "Israel has also engaged in the collective punishment of Gaza’s population through cutting off food, water, electricity, and fuel. This is a war crime, as is willfully blocking humanitarian relief from reaching civilians in need." "There’s also concern about Israel ordering the displacement of much of Gaza’s civilian population, which is permitted only if required for the civilians’ security or imperative military reasons. The civilian population needs to be able to return as soon as possible - permanent displacement is a crime." "In addition, the Israeli occupying authorities have committed and continue to commit other international crimes, including with West Bank settlements. If the occupying power transfers any of its civilian population into the occupied territory, either directly or indirectly, it is a war crime."