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Some of this is negated if manufacturers just sell plug in hybrids with tiny range-extending generators. But mostly they are not, and that is particularly perp

Some of this is negated if manufacturers just sell plug in hybrids with tiny range-extending generators. But mostly they are not, and that is particularly perplexing to me. Is there some kind of stigma against anything but a pure EV?

supertrope 3y ago
Plug-in hybrids only seem to be sold in certain states like California. GM cancelled the Chevy Volt. In states that don't subsidize or mandate them, or are ahem politically opposed to lower tailpipe emission vehicles, inventory is very thin. I wonder if these cars are just compliance models to bring up the CAFE fleet average. A 10 kWh battery adds several thousand dollars to the cost of the car. If manufacturers are not eager to make these widely available in all states it suggests they don't find it profitable. I'm not sure if it's EVs being higher priced and allowing for more margin, or sedans fading away from the market and therefore any PHEV sedans. Toyota does sell a PHEV SUV RAV4 but inventory is very scarce. Stellantis sells a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV (minivan).
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  > A 10 kWh battery adds several thousand dollars to the cost of the car. If manufacturers are not eager to make these widely available in all states it suggests they don't find it profitable. A plug in hybrid is basically an EV with a much smaller battery though, and what must be a cheap generator. It seems at least as economical as a pure EV to me, unless the generator "taints" them and they cannot be sold with higher margins.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
PHEVs are like the worst of both worlds. You have a heavy battery, and a combustion engine on the side. Just go one way or the other already. Toyota already makes a lot on selling hybrids, and I believe at least one Prius model is a PHEV.
- supertrope 3y ago
  They fit in a niche. People who can charge it every day and have a commute that fits within the battery only range can go months without buying gasoline. There used to be a $10,000 spread between a PHEV and 200 mi BEV.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Ya. Its weird that hybrids, let alone PHEVs, were never popular in China. They moved straight from ICE to EV. I expect the USA is sort of in the middle (we had more adoption of PHEVs, but that is rapidly being replaced by BEVs).
- tonyedgecombe 3y ago
  PHEV's are like the best of both worlds. You have a light battery, 20% of the size of an EV battery but big enough to cover most peoples day to day driving. Then you have a traditional internal combustion engine for the occasional longer trip.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  You are confusing traditional hybrids with true plug-in electric hybrids. The entire drivetrain is electric, but there is the ICE generator only has to be a few horsepower, at a single static rpm, hence it can be tiny, dirt cheap, and more fuel efficient than any normal automotive engine. This more than offsets the massive battery size reduction, which is a huge cost for EVs.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    PHEVs aren’t a new thing. The Prius PHEV is exactly as you say.

supertrope 3y ago

Plug-in hybrids only seem to be sold in certain states like California. GM cancelled the Chevy Volt. In states that don't subsidize or mandate them, or are ahem politically opposed to lower tailpipe emission vehicles, inventory is very thin. I wonder if these cars are just compliance models to bring up the CAFE fleet average. A 10 kWh battery adds several thousand dollars to the cost of the car. If manufacturers are not eager to make these widely available in all states it suggests they don't find it profitable. I'm not sure if it's EVs being higher priced and allowing for more margin, or sedans fading away from the market and therefore any PHEV sedans. Toyota does sell a PHEV SUV RAV4 but inventory is very scarce. Stellantis sells a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV (minivan).

brucethemoose2 3y ago
> A 10 kWh battery adds several thousand dollars to the cost of the car. If manufacturers are not eager to make these widely available in all states it suggests they don't find it profitable. A plug in hybrid is basically an EV with a much smaller battery though, and what must be a cheap generator. It seems at least as economical as a pure EV to me, unless the generator "taints" them and they cannot be sold with higher margins.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

PHEVs are like the worst of both worlds. You have a heavy battery, and a combustion engine on the side. Just go one way or the other already. Toyota already makes a lot on selling hybrids, and I believe at least one Prius model is a PHEV.

supertrope 3y ago
They fit in a niche. People who can charge it every day and have a commute that fits within the battery only range can go months without buying gasoline. There used to be a $10,000 spread between a PHEV and 200 mi BEV.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Ya. Its weird that hybrids, let alone PHEVs, were never popular in China. They moved straight from ICE to EV. I expect the USA is sort of in the middle (we had more adoption of PHEVs, but that is rapidly being replaced by BEVs).
tonyedgecombe 3y ago
PHEV's are like the best of both worlds. You have a light battery, 20% of the size of an EV battery but big enough to cover most peoples day to day driving. Then you have a traditional internal combustion engine for the occasional longer trip.
brucethemoose2 3y ago
You are confusing traditional hybrids with true plug-in electric hybrids. The entire drivetrain is electric, but there is the ICE generator only has to be a few horsepower, at a single static rpm, hence it can be tiny, dirt cheap, and more fuel efficient than any normal automotive engine. This more than offsets the massive battery size reduction, which is a huge cost for EVs.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  PHEVs aren’t a new thing. The Prius PHEV is exactly as you say.