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No, they were waiting for North America to pick a charging standard. North America has picked CCS with Tesla's plug on the end as the standard. The Tesla plug w

No, they were waiting for North America to pick a charging standard. North America has picked CCS with Tesla's plug on the end as the standard. The Tesla plug will become CCS Type 3, aka SAE J3400. Part of the reason why Europe has seen more EV infrastructure investment, development, and deployment is because the EU standardized on CCS Type 2 combo quite some time ago.

IshKebab 3y ago
Feels like it might be a USB-C vs Lightning thing for Europe. Tesla's standard is clearly superior... is Europe going to bite the bullet and have a painful switchover? I would guess they'll probably stay with the inferior standard forever.
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Europe's standard supports 3 phase supply, which is widespread — even in houses in several countries.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > Tesla's standard is clearly superior It isn't. It doesn't for example do three phase AC. 400 kW CCS type 2 combo chargers are being deployed right now. Where are the 400 kW chargers on the Tesla plug? North America now has a painful switchover from CCS type 1 and Tesla's proprietary charging to CCS type 3. Teslas 2019 and earlier will need a CCS retrofit to use all chargers. North America could have and should have standardized earlier.
  - potatochup 3y ago
    - At 400Kw, you're using DC, not AC anyway (whether three or single phase). Three phase is useful for faster (and more efficient) L2 charging (e.g. in the 10-50Kw range) - CCS type 3 is compatible with existing Tesla vehicles (it's a software update) - Tesla superchargers max out at 250Kw because they have all been 400V, whereas porche and etc are all 800V. The cybertruck is 800V so I expect faster chargers on newer Tesla vehicles
    - clouddrover 3y ago
      > At 400Kw, you're using DC Yes. So CCS type 2 Combo not "clearly inferior" to the "clearly superior" Tesla plug, is it. > CCS type 3 is compatible with existing Tesla vehicles (it's a software update) Teslas 2019 and earlier need a CCS retrofit. It's not just a software update. > Tesla superchargers max out at 250Kw because they have all been 400V That's wonderful. Show me the charger that's delivering 400 kW on the Tesla plug today. Remember, the contention is that the Tesla plug is "clearly superior" so it should already be faster, right?
      - _ea1k 3y ago
        This is silly, no Teslas charge at 400 KW, so obviously that doesn't exist. Noone within the industry has expressed concerns in making the NACS connector do 400KW. It already runs at higher amperages than CCS, despite the lower KW.
        clouddrover 3y ago
        > This is silly, no Teslas charge at 400 KW This is such narrow thinking. What matters is building capable EV infrastructure for all EVs, and that means going beyond 250 kW. Teslas are mid-range when it comes to charging. Other EVs are faster and need not be limited by what Teslas can achieve. Think bigger. Europe is: https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/article/fast-chargers-every-60-km-key-eu-motorways?a=FJA05&t%5B0%5D=Charging&curl=1 https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/article/f...
        IshKebab 3y ago
        I don't think you understood his point.
        clouddrover 3y ago
        He wasn't making one.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    > Teslas 2019 and earlier will need a CCS retrofit to use all chargers. I prefer to say that only about 75-80% of Teslas on the road are able to use the new NACS chargers without an upgrade. Given the widespread prevalence of superchargers supporting all Teslas, I don't see this as a big issue.

IshKebab 3y ago

Feels like it might be a USB-C vs Lightning thing for Europe. Tesla's standard is clearly superior... is Europe going to bite the bullet and have a painful switchover? I would guess they'll probably stay with the inferior standard forever.

Symbiote 3y ago
Europe's standard supports 3 phase supply, which is widespread — even in houses in several countries.
clouddrover 3y ago
> Tesla's standard is clearly superior It isn't. It doesn't for example do three phase AC. 400 kW CCS type 2 combo chargers are being deployed right now. Where are the 400 kW chargers on the Tesla plug? North America now has a painful switchover from CCS type 1 and Tesla's proprietary charging to CCS type 3. Teslas 2019 and earlier will need a CCS retrofit to use all chargers. North America could have and should have standardized earlier.
- potatochup 3y ago
  - At 400Kw, you're using DC, not AC anyway (whether three or single phase). Three phase is useful for faster (and more efficient) L2 charging (e.g. in the 10-50Kw range) - CCS type 3 is compatible with existing Tesla vehicles (it's a software update) - Tesla superchargers max out at 250Kw because they have all been 400V, whereas porche and etc are all 800V. The cybertruck is 800V so I expect faster chargers on newer Tesla vehicles
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    > At 400Kw, you're using DC Yes. So CCS type 2 Combo not "clearly inferior" to the "clearly superior" Tesla plug, is it. > CCS type 3 is compatible with existing Tesla vehicles (it's a software update) Teslas 2019 and earlier need a CCS retrofit. It's not just a software update. > Tesla superchargers max out at 250Kw because they have all been 400V That's wonderful. Show me the charger that's delivering 400 kW on the Tesla plug today. Remember, the contention is that the Tesla plug is "clearly superior" so it should already be faster, right?
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      This is silly, no Teslas charge at 400 KW, so obviously that doesn't exist. Noone within the industry has expressed concerns in making the NACS connector do 400KW. It already runs at higher amperages than CCS, despite the lower KW.
      - clouddrover 3y ago
        > This is silly, no Teslas charge at 400 KW This is such narrow thinking. What matters is building capable EV infrastructure for all EVs, and that means going beyond 250 kW. Teslas are mid-range when it comes to charging. Other EVs are faster and need not be limited by what Teslas can achieve. Think bigger. Europe is: https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/article/fast-chargers-every-60-km-key-eu-motorways?a=FJA05&t%5B0%5D=Charging&curl=1 https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/article/f...
        IshKebab 3y ago
        I don't think you understood his point.
        clouddrover 3y ago
        He wasn't making one.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  > Teslas 2019 and earlier will need a CCS retrofit to use all chargers. I prefer to say that only about 75-80% of Teslas on the road are able to use the new NACS chargers without an upgrade. Given the widespread prevalence of superchargers supporting all Teslas, I don't see this as a big issue.