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Ceasing print publication of ACM journals and transactions
- henrystaples 3y agoI'm and old grouch, but my old grouch eyes can't do the magazine(s), so I am glad they're leaving. I have to read them with one eye closed and a magnifying glass and so I stopped. And don't get me started on PDFs and horizontal scrolling! It's so embarrassing that the C.S. cobbler has no accessible shoes. I lean on ArXiv and HTML output but I am losing out on some research and conversations which saddens me.
- gunapologist99 3y agoRemember Linux Journal? Me, either. When organizations stop their print publications, they become just another content website.
- CaliforniaKarl 3y agoI know there’ll be folks who will still want things in print. I wonder why there isn’t a print-on-demand service for those folks. It also sucks for folks who want the content, but don’t want to have to pay a subscription in perpetuity. Maybe getting rid of the print option also obviates the need to do page layout, but if the publications are still made available in PDF or ePub formats, there will still be a need.
- Hendrikto 3y agoIf you really want to have a physical copy, you could print it out yourself.
- LudwigNagasena 3y ago> I wonder why there isn’t a print-on-demand service for those folks There is. It’s called a copy shop.
- kstrauser 3y agoAnother user, elashri, asked this: "Not sure if I can just take a pdf(epub..etc) file to a copy shop and just ask them to print the book for me. Wouldn't they be concerned about copyrights?" and their comment got voted down and killed. It's a good question, though. Can you take a random book to a copy shop and have it printed? I've never tried it and I don't know, but I'm curious. Before scanners were common and affordable, I had one heck of a time duplicating a professional photo of my parents. The photographer had died, and none of the local copy shops would dupe it for me without a release (which I eventually just forged, because it was getting ridiculous). It seems at least plausible that the same shops might say "nah, that's clearly not your own work, and we won't print it". How does this work in real life?
- isametry 3y agoA copy shop where they grab whatever bleached-to-death paper they have at hand, print it using consumer-grade powder toner with questionable quality and longevity, and if you’re lucky you will only pay slightly more than you would’ve for the industrially produced book? (And not significantly more.) You have it the other way round: copy shops for books exist – they are called print-on-demand book services. Amazon is doing a whole lot for example. These are production lines with huge digital presses, running almost completely automated, spitting out individual books each tied to a specific order (starting from one copy). The average copy shop and its glorified office printers will never match it in quality, and especially not in quality per dollar.
- elashri 3y agoNot sure if I can just take a pdf(epub..etc) file to a copy shop and just ask them to print the book for me. Wouldn't they be concerned about copyrights?
- elric 3y agoI've done this for some PDF books I've bought online using local (online) print shops. It's *insanely* expensive. IIRC the last ~400 page tome I had printed set me back 50eur in printing/binding/shipping costs.
- lowmagnet 3y agoMost of us selected non-print because it's easier to navigate the electronic version of The Communications.
- chris_wot 3y agoWon’t that still be in print form?
- pmontra 3y agoCan you download the file or do you have to read it inside a web app?
- Jtsummers 3y agoIt's a downloadable PDF, they send out the link via email every month to subscribers (I can probably unsubscribe from that, but it's a helpful reminder).
- quacksilver 3y agoAn A4 e-reader is one of the best things I purchased despite being insanely expensive for what it was and having slightly dubious firmware. I used to print stuff out to read as I find backlit screens and notifications on my tablet annoying when you are trying to grok a paper or read a textbook. Mine is a Boox Max 3, though Sony had an offering aimed at lawyers etc and I think some people like ones by remarkable too, though I have never tried them as my one hasn't broken yet and they are rather expensive.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoStill not easy to skim, flip through e readers. Especially remarkable which is damn slow to turn and render a page.
- quacksilver 3y agoTrue - I miss looking at bookshelves of myself and friends / colleagues / libraries to discover new stuff spontaneously too. Still, I can take what would have been a big stack of paper with me to the coffee shop / park / forest and like the ability to search for text strings. Maybe I should see if there is a 'give me a random page' button in my software or if a spotify / netflix style recommendation engine would work well for books and papers. Have never seen a remarkable in the flesh, though that would annoy me.
- smaudet 3y agoIf you could build a physical book that had e-reader pages (and took no power to read), that would solve some of the issue(s) both have. Its nice that you have a stack of books, but I also don't really want a stack of books even in tiny form factor. I want, maybe one or two books at a time, and I don't want to worry about them getting stolen/dropped/spilled on/not being charged/need an account to login to. I also don't want to search on a tiny bad UI for which book it is I actually want to read. So for me e-readers remain a non-starter. Give me a real book any day. IFF I want to search it I have a tablet if I'm doing work or taking a note on it. And other than leaving it behind, I'm not afraid of someone swiping it when I order another coffee.
- mirekrusin 3y agoWorst move for ACM was to stop subscription to O’Reilly.
- arnmac 3y agoYou can now get it again with an additional $75 subscription addon to your membership.
- tass 3y agoWhich can be cheaper than it used to be, depending on what membership options you need. It used to come with the digital library which is an additional $99.
- mirekrusin 3y agoOh nice, thanks [0] didn't know about it, just received communication they're abandoning it completely, I'm learning about "skills bundle" from you. This is really good. [0] https://learning.acm.org/skills-bundle https://learning.acm.org/skills-bundle
- PeterStuer 3y agoIs indeed the only teason I had an acm membership. I did not renew after they dropped that.
- asdefghyk 3y agoFast it a full subscription OR only the most popular (699??) books subscription ?
- xarope 3y agoIt's a shame, my SO (completely not in IT related work) does enjoy reading my ACM magazines, and despite being in very different industries, we do see and share quite similar experiences. Perhaps it's time I obtain one of those A4 e-ink readers!
- Fragoel2 3y agoMagazines will still be printed, this is for academic journals
- KolmogorovComp 3y agoWhat does SO stand for in this context?
- hoppyhoppy2 3y agoSignificant other
- bubblethink 3y agoThere goes another reason to charge money for publishing, AKA putting pdfs online. Now, if only they cease that.
- tellarin 3y agoACM doesn't charge you for publishing papers in their journals, conferences, and to end online in their digital library. Though papers accepted through a conference, mostly require one of the authors registering for such conference; which seems fair to me as the effort to organize them is non-trivial.
- bubblethink 3y agoNo, they charge either the readers or the authors. And yes, it is trivial.
- kristopolous 3y agoThis thing we're doing where we centrally host everything as opposed to creating a bunch of physical copies, it's going to come back to bite us and relying on the internet archive as the global backup isn't a great solution
- adastra22 3y agoAren’t there librarians archiving these things too?
- smaudet 3y agoNope. Libraries are archiving physical stuff. Digital stuff is pretty hit-or-miss. Worse, digital stuff is owned by a monopoly that's actively making it harder to find or get anything online, when it is made available to libraries at all. Add on top the problem with DRM - if there are no physical libraries (bad idea) suddenly, how many libraries should there be? Who gets to make that decision? DRM is predicated on not letting everyone get a copy, but this flies directly in the face of the point of libraries, where everyone may share a copy. You either can have infinite libraries in which case DRM is redundant and should be removed, or you can only have very few, in which case DRM is literally nothing other than a tool of oppression, and should be removed (by executing by firing squad the cranks hoisting their vision of a only-rich-people-get-stuff world). There are ways in this post-physical copy world of making sure creators get paid still, but lets just say, the incentives are just not there.
- adastra22 3y agohttps://guides.loc.gov/current-periodicals/digital-collections https://guides.loc.gov/current-periodicals/digital-collectio... The library of Congress is exempted from most (all?) DRM restrictions.
- smaudet 3y agoDoesn't mean they have accessible stuff, or are actually even archiving it: https://www.loc.gov/search/?fa=original-format:software,+e-resource&q=Halo+Combat+Evolved https://www.loc.gov/search/?fa=original-format:software,+e-r...
- asdefghyk 3y agoAs long as its a downloadable, high resolution PDF
- riscy 3y agoWith fewer and fewer printed works, I wonder how future archeologists will discover human knowledge from our era. Especially after a world-wide catastrophe. Human language written in the physical world seems more durable long-term than the electrons in a flash drive.
- smaudet 3y agoAbsolutely. Or even, the power in the laptop or the fuel cells in your battery in your laptop. Digital is a great transmission format but a ridiculously lousy archive one.
- anonylizard 3y agocheck out Microsoft silica, essentially stone tablets except with glass, so much much more data stored. Encryption will be painful though
- smaudet 3y agoLarge size dvd drives also work today. But again, still need power and a computer/interface etc. Mesh network + reader device partially solves some of those issues, but it doesn't remove the need for fancy setups just to be able to read something.
- anonylizard 3y agoEven if we lose the ability to build readers, the understanding that these digital mediums contain valuable information will never be lost. It isn’t rocket science to build a room sized dvd reader if needed
- Someone 3y ago> It isn’t rocket science to build a room sized dvd reader It is. We have built rockets for 700+ years, a V2 reached space in 1944 and we went to the moon over half a century ago, over a decade before even the compact disc (1982). If society collapses completely, I think it will be decades, possibly centuries before we even consider trying to read these. At that time, many DVDs might not be readable by DVD players anymore.
- khazhoux 3y agoWait, no more Siggraph proceedings??
- elric 3y agoI think this is a sad evolution which will ultimately result in fewer people reading the journals & transactions (which are often quite interesting). I specifically joined the ACM for the print versions of Communications and Transactions, and have a bookshelf dedicated to both. I haven't seen any other compelling reasons for an ACM membership, so this will mean farewell from me. Reading, especially technical material, on screen is still an inferior experience to paper. Even with my Remarkable. Flipping pages is slow, browsing is slow, it's impossible to have multiple documents open side by side. Maybe I'm just an old grouch. But I'm not happy about this.
- f6v 3y ago> Maybe I'm just an old grouch. Yes. Reading on iPad is great.
- bm5k 3y ago+1 for reading on iPad. Especially the 12.9”. Not sure it’ll replace my eInk reader for pulp fiction, but for technical materials, it’s usually more convenient than going to my shelf to grab a physical book.
- adhesive_wombat 3y agoI find when I have digital documents, things are easier to find when I'm looking for them. But physical documents are ones I'll just pick up and idly read. Which is the value I'd (personally) take in a shelf of, in this case, ACM journals in my house. Admittedly this isn't a key consideration for the ACM.
- mellosouls 3y agoIt really isn't, at least not generally. I think tablets are a decent secondary substitute for print-form only for publications like this with figures and images, and where the activity is more browsing rather than linear. For general reading (eg fiction) I think print is optimal, followed by e-ink with normal tablets considerably down the list. The ease of access to a library bumps up the utility of the ereader and tablet considerably.
- mehulashah 3y agoCommunications of the ACM will still be printed. The journals and transactions are a compendium of research papers that are too numerous for anyone to read in their entirety. Moreover, you can still print the ones that you’re interested in. This change is strictly better.
- m1keil 3y agoMaybe they will also stop sending snail mail and use electronic email as well. Sending a letter across the world to remind me to renew my subscription seems quiet pointless in 2023.
- leemailll 3y agoIt's kind of a sad trend for academic publications. I still remember those interesting things of those journals I read from journals shared on coffee tables in our building
- mro_name 3y agoA magazine moving to the cloud dissolves in thin air. Reading the articles with a low entry barrier is something for the beach, the cafe and the train. That will not happen eletronically. Also "casual reading", where I read a 2nd or 3rd article, besides the one that drew my attention, won't happen anymore. Charles Simonyi said in his Bravo Demo about electronic documents "there is no such thing as an original anymore" https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/q_Na1SJXSBg?t=371s https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/q_Na1SJXSBg?t=371s I may execute a special right of termination of my 15-year membership.
- kayo_20211030 3y agoA bit disingenuous, I think > ACM wants to be as environmentally friendly as possible Distribution is declining, so total environmental cost per issue is declining naturally. Even then, it's a sunk cost. No matter how many readers use the printed journal or how often they read it, the cost is the same. But, every time a reader uses a computer, e-reader, whatever there's now an additional cost. If you want to cease printing for financial reasons, just say that and don't use the fig leaf of environmental friendliness.
- gunapologist99 3y agoGreenwashing under the guise of science, when trees are a renewable resource, but the strip mines to produce batteries are not. Quite ironic actually.
- henrystaples 3y agoDon't be misled by the label. Trees, at the rate we're cutting them, are not renewing.
- Jtsummers 3y ago> Even then, it's a sunk cost. New publications aren't a sunk cost, they involve fresh lumber and pulp (even using recycled paper rarely involves 100% recycled material), new printing, new shipping. A present or future cost, which cannot be a sunk cost since sunk costs are things spent in the past.
- krunck 3y agoYep. A printed journal issue can sit on a shelf for years and years consuming zero energy and requiring zero raw materials. Yet the entire time it is accessible and usable. To keep a PDF of that issue online and accessible(assuming you have an account, remember your password, charged your tablet) requires constant energy usage to power the servers in the datacenter. It also require periodic hardware replacement in the data center. I suspect that over the lifetime of the paper journal it's PDF copy will require the consumption of far more energy and materials than the paper one did. Electronic documents are great. I've got nothing against them. But let's not fool ourselves(or let ourselves be fooled) by all the greenwash pumped out by people trying to please investors.
- keheliya 3y agoNow the print publication has ceased I hope they remove the archaic submission format requirements for the journals which were justified mainly due to the print edition