4 ms·

Yeah, it's not really "easy to say stuff like this" because everyone who thinks they know better than actual real honest-to-goodness web designers will instantl

Yeah, it's not really "easy to say stuff like this" because everyone who thinks they know better than actual real honest-to-goodness web designers will instantly want to argue with you to the bitter end why their fantasy web design has to be 100% "pixel perfect" layout exactly as they envision it on every single device or browser ever invented. It's a huge part of why I'm no longer a web designer. More of my time was wasted fixing literal one pixel differences in layout between browsers (and browser versions) than almost any other part of the process.

spookthesunset 3y ago
I haven't encountered a "pixel perfect" designer for at least 15 years now, if not more. Virtually every single UX designer I've worked with provides flexible designs that scale with screen size.
- butlike 3y ago
  Good. I've finally gotten over my nightmares where I'm chopping photoshop designs and literally using <img src=""> to add a rounded edge on a <td>
  - waterhouse 3y ago
    This is the most awesome approach for rounded corners: https://ridiculousfish.com/blog/posts/roundy.html https://ridiculousfish.com/blog/posts/roundy.html
    - bmicraft 3y ago
      Oh wow, it's even worse than I imagined
    - robocat 3y ago
      Funny that it is slightly broken on Safari Mobile[1] Zoom in on the [Touché!] button and there are artifacts between the rows that make up the corners. [1] iPhone OS 16_7 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.6 Mobile/15E148 Safari/604.1
- spcebar 3y ago
  In my side of the agency world there are a lot of designers who design UX that aren't UX designers. A lot of them want started in print and expect pixel perfect designs/don't understand the need for breakpoints. We had a client who got on our case about a design being a half a pixel off. That sounds like a joke but it genuinely happened.
- nkg 3y ago
  I have worked with one of those freaks last year. She argued that every block had to be exactly like it was on Figma, and she once sent me a screenshot with a little ruler drawn on it, to show me a 3px gap. It was such a waste of time and energy...
  - cuddlecake 3y ago
    How _do_ you get a 3px gap though?
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  They said the people who claim to know more than actual designers will want it pixel perfect. So i.e. The designer knows pixel perfect is a fallacy, the client doesn't care and wants a pixel perfect match of their figma document on their personal laptop screen.
  - camillomiller 3y ago
    Solution: make that only for that specific viewport, ignore it for the rest. Hard unreasonable clients are not so common as people depict them to be, at least in my experience. I do have a spidey sense after years of client work in sorting them out right away, maybe, but even stupid clients are reasonable if you’re able to make business points about their requests
levmiseri 3y ago
There is pixel-perfection and 'pixel-perfection'. One is a pointless fight against the nature of the medium while the other is love for the craft, sophistication, and actually giving a fuck that something isn't needlessly 2 pixels off of where it should have been. A certain attitude that will show its mark throughout the UI.
joe_the_user 3y ago
I'm not UX person and I don't know whether "pixel perfect" and absolute positioning requirement come from clients or designers on average. I'd guess it varies by organization, industry and whatever. But it's worth being clear that mixing such thing with flowing text and graphic is where things get hard. Html 1 had flowing text in the 90s and you can still do that. Moreover, all this is related to overall user hostile designs. Organizations broadly don't want their pages to be neutral streams of information but want to control a user experience that nudges people this way and that and fixed are important to that.
- threatofrain 3y ago
  If we had an API for web data then accessibility would've been a solved problem. The user's client would decide the best presentation of information.
  - klysm 3y ago
    That’s too deep on the generic/specific trade off to be legitimately useful
  - SilasX 3y ago
    But ... we did, and do. It's called HTML. It allows you to send back structured data in a client-agnostic way. It's just that it got bastardized to the point that people will send the data in a way that only certain clients can intelligibly render it, and then, only in a way usable to people without certain disabilities. It's not just a technical problem, but the social problem of how you get people to keep using that API, and not extending it, and not breaking it in favor of some different purpose (like ads) Whatever API for web data you propose, I can tell you exactly what will happen to it: 1) Initial clients are geek-designed and geek-friendly, and render the data intelligently. 2) This API gets popular for not having all the cruft. 3) Some genius discovers they could add some cutesy visuals and effects if only the standard were extended, and targets the clients that handle these extensions. 4) Eventually, only those clients are cared about, and you can only make sense of the data with those clients and if you don't have disabilities. If you want to make progress, figure out how to eliminate that dynamic. Earlier threads on this point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30727026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30727026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20224961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20224961
giantrobot 3y ago
"It needs to look exactly like this PSD file I made!" You get the same with some native UI designers. They kick and scream until you've got some custom widget that precisely apes the Photoshop layer effects. Then kick and scream again when they make changes that take non-zero time to rebuild with that custom widget.
camillomiller 3y ago
Honestly, this is not a technical issue but rather a communication and “positive non-narcissistic persuasion” one. I think I’m a meh to ok designer and an ok frontend webdev, but my strongest selling point is communication, with clients praising that aspect of my work more often than I would have ever expected. Designers might care about pixel perfection, but their bosses rarely do. If you have engaging, respectful, data-driven, and business-oriented points to make and you communicate them clearly and effectively, you’ll be surprised how many times you can change someone’s mind. Even designers’ minds, because they don’t live in a vacuum and they know that shipping is relevant to their own interests. Tl;dr invest in effective communication skills as much as you would invest in more technical knowledge.

spookthesunset 3y ago

I haven't encountered a "pixel perfect" designer for at least 15 years now, if not more. Virtually every single UX designer I've worked with provides flexible designs that scale with screen size.

butlike 3y ago
Good. I've finally gotten over my nightmares where I'm chopping photoshop designs and literally using <img src=""> to add a rounded edge on a <td>
- waterhouse 3y ago
  This is the most awesome approach for rounded corners: https://ridiculousfish.com/blog/posts/roundy.html https://ridiculousfish.com/blog/posts/roundy.html
  - bmicraft 3y ago
    Oh wow, it's even worse than I imagined
  - robocat 3y ago
    Funny that it is slightly broken on Safari Mobile[1] Zoom in on the [Touché!] button and there are artifacts between the rows that make up the corners. [1] iPhone OS 16_7 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/605.1.15 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/16.6 Mobile/15E148 Safari/604.1
spcebar 3y ago
In my side of the agency world there are a lot of designers who design UX that aren't UX designers. A lot of them want started in print and expect pixel perfect designs/don't understand the need for breakpoints. We had a client who got on our case about a design being a half a pixel off. That sounds like a joke but it genuinely happened.
nkg 3y ago
I have worked with one of those freaks last year. She argued that every block had to be exactly like it was on Figma, and she once sent me a screenshot with a little ruler drawn on it, to show me a 3px gap. It was such a waste of time and energy...
- cuddlecake 3y ago
  How _do_ you get a 3px gap though?
squeaky-clean 3y ago
They said the people who claim to know more than actual designers will want it pixel perfect. So i.e. The designer knows pixel perfect is a fallacy, the client doesn't care and wants a pixel perfect match of their figma document on their personal laptop screen.
- camillomiller 3y ago
  Solution: make that only for that specific viewport, ignore it for the rest. Hard unreasonable clients are not so common as people depict them to be, at least in my experience. I do have a spidey sense after years of client work in sorting them out right away, maybe, but even stupid clients are reasonable if you’re able to make business points about their requests

levmiseri 3y ago

There is pixel-perfection and 'pixel-perfection'. One is a pointless fight against the nature of the medium while the other is love for the craft, sophistication, and actually giving a fuck that something isn't needlessly 2 pixels off of where it should have been. A certain attitude that will show its mark throughout the UI.

joe_the_user 3y ago

I'm not UX person and I don't know whether "pixel perfect" and absolute positioning requirement come from clients or designers on average. I'd guess it varies by organization, industry and whatever. But it's worth being clear that mixing such thing with flowing text and graphic is where things get hard. Html 1 had flowing text in the 90s and you can still do that. Moreover, all this is related to overall user hostile designs. Organizations broadly don't want their pages to be neutral streams of information but want to control a user experience that nudges people this way and that and fixed are important to that.

threatofrain 3y ago
If we had an API for web data then accessibility would've been a solved problem. The user's client would decide the best presentation of information.
- klysm 3y ago
  That’s too deep on the generic/specific trade off to be legitimately useful
- SilasX 3y ago
  But ... we did, and do. It's called HTML. It allows you to send back structured data in a client-agnostic way. It's just that it got bastardized to the point that people will send the data in a way that only certain clients can intelligibly render it, and then, only in a way usable to people without certain disabilities. It's not just a technical problem, but the social problem of how you get people to keep using that API, and not extending it, and not breaking it in favor of some different purpose (like ads) Whatever API for web data you propose, I can tell you exactly what will happen to it: 1) Initial clients are geek-designed and geek-friendly, and render the data intelligently. 2) This API gets popular for not having all the cruft. 3) Some genius discovers they could add some cutesy visuals and effects if only the standard were extended, and targets the clients that handle these extensions. 4) Eventually, only those clients are cared about, and you can only make sense of the data with those clients and if you don't have disabilities. If you want to make progress, figure out how to eliminate that dynamic. Earlier threads on this point: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30727026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30727026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20224961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20224961

giantrobot 3y ago

"It needs to look exactly like this PSD file I made!" You get the same with some native UI designers. They kick and scream until you've got some custom widget that precisely apes the Photoshop layer effects. Then kick and scream again when they make changes that take non-zero time to rebuild with that custom widget.

camillomiller 3y ago

Honestly, this is not a technical issue but rather a communication and “positive non-narcissistic persuasion” one. I think I’m a meh to ok designer and an ok frontend webdev, but my strongest selling point is communication, with clients praising that aspect of my work more often than I would have ever expected. Designers might care about pixel perfection, but their bosses rarely do. If you have engaging, respectful, data-driven, and business-oriented points to make and you communicate them clearly and effectively, you’ll be surprised how many times you can change someone’s mind. Even designers’ minds, because they don’t live in a vacuum and they know that shipping is relevant to their own interests. Tl;dr invest in effective communication skills as much as you would invest in more technical knowledge.