5 ms·

Ousted eLife editor on being fired in wake of Israel-Hamas remarks

19 points by digital55 3y ago

jpcfl 3y ago
Holy hell, he was fired for posting a joke on Twitter? In particular, a joke that is meant to call attention to a lack of sympathy for victims of war? Cancel Culture is undoubtedly having a profound chilling effect on free speech. If only there were a way to measure it.
- dekhn 3y ago
  It's worth reading the folks who attacked Eisen on twitter over this- a really extraordinary example of completely unnecessary misinterpretation of his intent. That said, his tweets have always been controversial and I wish he'd put down the twitters and get back to work.
  - jpcfl 3y ago
    > a really extraordinary example of completely unnecessary misinterpretation of his intent I mean, that's par for the course when talking about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It almost invariably devolves into extreme rhetoric. I have a feeling this post will be taken down because of this. Hopefully not, since this story isn't about the conflict, it's about Cancel Culture, IMHO. > That said, his tweets have always been controversial and I wish he'd put down the twitters and get back to work. People should be allowed to have personal lives that are separate from their work lives. If you were CEO of a large company, does that mean everything you say and do is now an official statement or action of that company? I really hope not.
djoletina 3y ago
Has there ever been a country in history so obviously doing bad things with so much worldwide support, especially from the west?
- stvltvs 3y ago
  Saudi Arabia?
  - djoletina 3y ago
    You think Saudi Arabia has public support? If this dude posted about Saudi Arabia doing something bad, would he be fired?
    - stvltvs 3y ago
      Not in American public opinion, but the US government has a very supportive relationship. So I guess it depends on what kind of support we're talking about. https://www.state.gov/united-states-saudi-arabia-relationship-eight-decades-of-partnership/ https://www.state.gov/united-states-saudi-arabia-relationshi...
- jacknews 3y ago
  Yes this whole thing is bullshit. Hamas obviously are a bunch of evil barbarians. On the other hand, they're spawned from decades of systematic oppression of Palestinians (I've seen it fh) by Israel, isrealis, and their insecurity. And now the world is basically standing-by, if not encouraging events, while Israel freely exacts revenge, if not genocide, justified by Hamas' atrocious (but quite predictable) outburst. Do they really think removing 'radical elements' (along with whatever collateral damage) will solve the problem? I feel myself becoming more radical just by watching events, and I have absolutely no connection whatsoever to the region.
  - djoletina 3y ago
    Exactly! No country in the world gets a blanket permission to level an entire city with zero consequences.
    - readthenotes1 3y ago
      Don't tell that to the war lords of WW2
cobertos 3y ago
Why is work like this nowadays? A company I work with has an internal global Yammer instance. It's been filled with people commenting very polarizing opinions on this topic. Perhaps magnified because we have employees in affected countries. I wish I could just turn it off, but I get email notifications of it, and the platform is beneficial to other parts of my/our work (announcing new features on a tool I work on)
renewiltord 3y ago
Cancel culture is cancel culture. But what's the idea that makes it bad? It's not over a protected class which we do deem worthy generally but over political views which are not uniformly considered protected. Why shouldn't free people have the right to freely associate as they would like? Shunning is just the free expression of association, particularly the lack thereof. Though if I'm honest, I thought political views are protected in California.
- mitthrowaway2 3y ago
  I don't think this is an issue of free association. It's more an issue of: should your employer be able to make your employment contingent on the non-expression of your political views during your free time?
- jpcfl 3y ago
  > Cancel culture is cancel culture. But what's the idea that makes it bad? It's not over a protected class which we do deem worthy generally but over political views which are not uniformly considered protected. I think it's important to parse out the difference between bad and illegal. Just because something is bad doesn't mean it should be illegal, and just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's bad. Cancel Culture is a bad thing, but I don't think it should be illegal to fire someone because he's controversial. That being said, I don't think our culture should tolerate it. Cancel Culture creates a chilling effect on speech; it's hard to have a candid conversation when you know that expressing the "wrong" opinion could mean losing your job and being publicly humiliated. It can also create a mob rule, which has no interest in the truth, but rather seeks to demonize anyone who challenges its worldview. I'll give you an example of this that happened in San Francisco recently. A school board member was accused of being a "racist" after she remarked that "black and brown students" lack family support. Despite the fact that this is objectively true in her school district, she was forced to publicly apologize and resign, Chinese Cultural Revolution style. This kind of publicly humiliation creates a toxic environment, where instead of identifying and addressing the root cause of problems, school boards will plug their ears and hum while doing things that actually make things worse [1]. Or, people will say one thing, but actually think another. San Francisco is notorious for this; people virtue signal left and right, but when it comes to actual policy, they vote very differently. The fact of the matter is that people have a wide range of opinions. I work with people who are all over the political spectrum, none of whom should be publicly humiliated and forced to resign, apologize, and flagellate themselves just because their opinions are controversial. This is definitely not how you win hearts and minds for a cause, at least not among rational people. Sooner or later, the things you use against other people will be turned against you. [1] Different school board, but undoubtedly the same type of people who called Ann Hsu a racist: https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2023/10/oregon-again-says-students-dont-need-to-prove-mastery-of-reading-writing-or-math-to-graduate-citing-harm-to-students-of-color.html https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2023/10/oregon-again-sa...
underseacables 3y ago
Cancel culture can strike anyone at any time. I feel like we went through years of cancel culture and nobody really raise an eyebrow, now suddenly it's a problem. Cancel culture is awful no matter what it's about.
- matt006 3y ago
  [flagged]

19 points by digital55 3y ago

Holy hell, he was fired for posting a joke on Twitter? In particular, a joke that is meant to call attention to a lack of sympathy for victims of war? Cancel Culture is undoubtedly having a profound chilling effect on free speech. If only there were a way to measure it.

dekhn 3y ago
It's worth reading the folks who attacked Eisen on twitter over this- a really extraordinary example of completely unnecessary misinterpretation of his intent. That said, his tweets have always been controversial and I wish he'd put down the twitters and get back to work.
- jpcfl 3y ago
  > a really extraordinary example of completely unnecessary misinterpretation of his intent I mean, that's par for the course when talking about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It almost invariably devolves into extreme rhetoric. I have a feeling this post will be taken down because of this. Hopefully not, since this story isn't about the conflict, it's about Cancel Culture, IMHO. > That said, his tweets have always been controversial and I wish he'd put down the twitters and get back to work. People should be allowed to have personal lives that are separate from their work lives. If you were CEO of a large company, does that mean everything you say and do is now an official statement or action of that company? I really hope not.

djoletina 3y ago

Has there ever been a country in history so obviously doing bad things with so much worldwide support, especially from the west?

stvltvs 3y ago
Saudi Arabia?
- djoletina 3y ago
  You think Saudi Arabia has public support? If this dude posted about Saudi Arabia doing something bad, would he be fired?
  - stvltvs 3y ago
    Not in American public opinion, but the US government has a very supportive relationship. So I guess it depends on what kind of support we're talking about. https://www.state.gov/united-states-saudi-arabia-relationship-eight-decades-of-partnership/ https://www.state.gov/united-states-saudi-arabia-relationshi...
jacknews 3y ago
Yes this whole thing is bullshit. Hamas obviously are a bunch of evil barbarians. On the other hand, they're spawned from decades of systematic oppression of Palestinians (I've seen it fh) by Israel, isrealis, and their insecurity. And now the world is basically standing-by, if not encouraging events, while Israel freely exacts revenge, if not genocide, justified by Hamas' atrocious (but quite predictable) outburst. Do they really think removing 'radical elements' (along with whatever collateral damage) will solve the problem? I feel myself becoming more radical just by watching events, and I have absolutely no connection whatsoever to the region.
- djoletina 3y ago
  Exactly! No country in the world gets a blanket permission to level an entire city with zero consequences.
  - readthenotes1 3y ago
    Don't tell that to the war lords of WW2

cobertos 3y ago

Why is work like this nowadays? A company I work with has an internal global Yammer instance. It's been filled with people commenting very polarizing opinions on this topic. Perhaps magnified because we have employees in affected countries. I wish I could just turn it off, but I get email notifications of it, and the platform is beneficial to other parts of my/our work (announcing new features on a tool I work on)

renewiltord 3y ago

Cancel culture is cancel culture. But what's the idea that makes it bad? It's not over a protected class which we do deem worthy generally but over political views which are not uniformly considered protected. Why shouldn't free people have the right to freely associate as they would like? Shunning is just the free expression of association, particularly the lack thereof. Though if I'm honest, I thought political views are protected in California.

mitthrowaway2 3y ago
I don't think this is an issue of free association. It's more an issue of: should your employer be able to make your employment contingent on the non-expression of your political views during your free time?
jpcfl 3y ago
> Cancel culture is cancel culture. But what's the idea that makes it bad? It's not over a protected class which we do deem worthy generally but over political views which are not uniformly considered protected. I think it's important to parse out the difference between bad and illegal. Just because something is bad doesn't mean it should be illegal, and just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's bad. Cancel Culture is a bad thing, but I don't think it should be illegal to fire someone because he's controversial. That being said, I don't think our culture should tolerate it. Cancel Culture creates a chilling effect on speech; it's hard to have a candid conversation when you know that expressing the "wrong" opinion could mean losing your job and being publicly humiliated. It can also create a mob rule, which has no interest in the truth, but rather seeks to demonize anyone who challenges its worldview. I'll give you an example of this that happened in San Francisco recently. A school board member was accused of being a "racist" after she remarked that "black and brown students" lack family support. Despite the fact that this is objectively true in her school district, she was forced to publicly apologize and resign, Chinese Cultural Revolution style. This kind of publicly humiliation creates a toxic environment, where instead of identifying and addressing the root cause of problems, school boards will plug their ears and hum while doing things that actually make things worse [1]. Or, people will say one thing, but actually think another. San Francisco is notorious for this; people virtue signal left and right, but when it comes to actual policy, they vote very differently. The fact of the matter is that people have a wide range of opinions. I work with people who are all over the political spectrum, none of whom should be publicly humiliated and forced to resign, apologize, and flagellate themselves just because their opinions are controversial. This is definitely not how you win hearts and minds for a cause, at least not among rational people. Sooner or later, the things you use against other people will be turned against you. [1] Different school board, but undoubtedly the same type of people who called Ann Hsu a racist: https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2023/10/oregon-again-says-students-dont-need-to-prove-mastery-of-reading-writing-or-math-to-graduate-citing-harm-to-students-of-color.html https://www.oregonlive.com/education/2023/10/oregon-again-sa...

underseacables 3y ago

Cancel culture can strike anyone at any time. I feel like we went through years of cancel culture and nobody really raise an eyebrow, now suddenly it's a problem. Cancel culture is awful no matter what it's about.

matt006 3y ago
[flagged]