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NASA currently considers kidney stones an unacceptable risk for a Mars mission that requires mitigation.[1] There are also about 10 other risks requiring mitiga

NASA currently considers kidney stones an unacceptable risk for a Mars mission that requires mitigation.[1] There are also about 10 other risks requiring mitigation, though.[1] [1] https://humanresearchroadmap.nasa.gov/Risks/risk.aspx?i=81 https://humanresearchroadmap.nasa.gov/Risks/risk.aspx?i=81 [2] https://humanresearchroadmap.nasa.gov/Risks/ https://humanresearchroadmap.nasa.gov/Risks/

ghufran_syed 3y ago
NASA saying there is a “research gap” and that it “needs mitigation” is very different from it being an “unacceptable risk” which implies that no mission can happen until it happens. if there was a ship ready to go with a hab and propellant for the return trip sitting on mars, I can guarantee they would take the very next transfer window, kidney stone risk notwithstanding- particularly if the chinese or russians were about to do so and might get there first!
- hypercube33 3y ago
  I mean I just watched a bunch of documentaries about Challenger and Columbia...you're damn right they would rubber stamp it.
  - bumby 3y ago
    What’s your definition of rubber stamping? Usually it means approving without any consideration. In both of those cases, there was a lot of deliberation. Their end conclusion may have been wrong, but it’s really quite different than “rubber stamping”
- bumby 3y ago
  According to the method by which NASA measures risk, it is indeed an "unacceptable risk". The red 4x4 "LxC" box stands for "likelihood x consequence". So they consider it a high likelihood and a severe consequence. It's red because that puts it in the unacceptable category. If you look at the medical risk matrix it puts the likelihood between 60% - 80% and consequence at "loss time injury or illness per OSHA criteria" On a score of 1 (least risky) to 25 (most risky), a 4x4 scores 22. Now to your point about "guaranteeing" they would still go, they are allowed to waive these risks through a formal process. It tends to make managers squeamish though, because nobody wants to be the person who's signature is attached to a known risk that eventually causes a mishap. https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/s3001_guidelines_for_risk_management_-_ver_g_-_10-25-2017.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/s3001_guidel...
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
Maybe I'm not looking at the right terms but the appendix isn't on it. Is there a requirement for astronauts to have an appendectomy? Like researches in Antarctica.
- extraduder_ire 3y ago
  Returning from space in a hurry is a lot quicker than returning from Antarctica over winter. I don't know, but I've never heard of that being in their risk profile or requirements.
  - Rebelgecko 3y ago
    Can you abort while you're on the way to Mars?
    - extraduder_ire 3y ago
      Good point. I was thinking about earth-orbit. I don't think you even get free-return on most mars missions like you do with moon missions.
- __s 3y ago
  Looked up antarctica appendectomy: https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-antarctica/health https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-ant... Only required for doctors staying over winter. Neat
  - HideousKojima 3y ago
    Probably because the Soviets famously had only one doctor at one of their stations and he happened to get appendicitis. Had to do his own appendectomy with two assistants to hold a mirror and light, and also what I assume were copious amounts of vodka.
- bumby 3y ago
  From a non-NASA site: "NASA does not mandate astronauts to undergo an appendectomy before embarking on a mission. This decision stems from the understanding that the risks associated with surgery frequently outweigh the potential benefits." https://www.lunarsail.com/do-astronauts-have-their-appendix-removed/ https://www.lunarsail.com/do-astronauts-have-their-appendix-...

ghufran_syed 3y ago

NASA saying there is a “research gap” and that it “needs mitigation” is very different from it being an “unacceptable risk” which implies that no mission can happen until it happens. if there was a ship ready to go with a hab and propellant for the return trip sitting on mars, I can guarantee they would take the very next transfer window, kidney stone risk notwithstanding- particularly if the chinese or russians were about to do so and might get there first!

hypercube33 3y ago
I mean I just watched a bunch of documentaries about Challenger and Columbia...you're damn right they would rubber stamp it.
- bumby 3y ago
  What’s your definition of rubber stamping? Usually it means approving without any consideration. In both of those cases, there was a lot of deliberation. Their end conclusion may have been wrong, but it’s really quite different than “rubber stamping”
bumby 3y ago
According to the method by which NASA measures risk, it is indeed an "unacceptable risk". The red 4x4 "LxC" box stands for "likelihood x consequence". So they consider it a high likelihood and a severe consequence. It's red because that puts it in the unacceptable category. If you look at the medical risk matrix it puts the likelihood between 60% - 80% and consequence at "loss time injury or illness per OSHA criteria" On a score of 1 (least risky) to 25 (most risky), a 4x4 scores 22. Now to your point about "guaranteeing" they would still go, they are allowed to waive these risks through a formal process. It tends to make managers squeamish though, because nobody wants to be the person who's signature is attached to a known risk that eventually causes a mishap. https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/s3001_guidelines_for_risk_management_-_ver_g_-_10-25-2017.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/s3001_guidel...

WirelessGigabit 3y ago

Maybe I'm not looking at the right terms but the appendix isn't on it. Is there a requirement for astronauts to have an appendectomy? Like researches in Antarctica.

extraduder_ire 3y ago
Returning from space in a hurry is a lot quicker than returning from Antarctica over winter. I don't know, but I've never heard of that being in their risk profile or requirements.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Can you abort while you're on the way to Mars?
  - extraduder_ire 3y ago
    Good point. I was thinking about earth-orbit. I don't think you even get free-return on most mars missions like you do with moon missions.
__s 3y ago
Looked up antarctica appendectomy: https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-antarctica/health https://www.antarctica.gov.au/about-antarctica/people-in-ant... Only required for doctors staying over winter. Neat
- HideousKojima 3y ago
  Probably because the Soviets famously had only one doctor at one of their stations and he happened to get appendicitis. Had to do his own appendectomy with two assistants to hold a mirror and light, and also what I assume were copious amounts of vodka.
bumby 3y ago
From a non-NASA site: "NASA does not mandate astronauts to undergo an appendectomy before embarking on a mission. This decision stems from the understanding that the risks associated with surgery frequently outweigh the potential benefits." https://www.lunarsail.com/do-astronauts-have-their-appendix-removed/ https://www.lunarsail.com/do-astronauts-have-their-appendix-...