7 ms·

UK government accused of 'vandalism' over abolishing biometrics safeguards

99 points by CTOSian 3y ago

downvotetruth 3y ago
Good riddance
throwaway167 3y ago
Tories: vandalise anything on the way out for profit for their mates. Labour: Do nothing to reverse these as liberty's not a priority for the social equality ego theme du jour in fashion for the decade.
- stranded22 3y ago
  Labour not in power.
- weevil 3y ago
  > social equality ego theme du jour Labour actively avoid doing anything the Tories can spin to weaponise the electorate against them. They don't feel bold enough to reverse anything the Tories have done, because the Tories will spin it as Labour taking away our freedoms or charging us too much tax whatever nonsense.
  - hanniabu 3y ago
    We're seeing the same in the US. I wonder the where this rise in authoritarianism will lead, especially in the current timeframe where it's so easy to push out misinformation to win narratives and robotic armies you can control with a small team are right around the corner. Pretty soon revolutions will be impossible and the masses will be slaves to whatever conditions the rulers desire. Dark times are nigh.
    - kbrkbr 3y ago
      Once there was another republic and empire. It also had a Senate, the original one. In this republic populism became also strong, there were even civil wars. Later strong army leaders removed the republic (and then reinstated it on paper). It was not necessarily a dark time for their minions (Pax Augusta). In the end the empire broke down in the west. Much later also in the east, but some say it lives on in the Russian empire (for example Putin). Often enough in history though if a society moved fast in one direction, it would regress to the mean. We'll see.
      - hanniabu 3y ago
        The difference is the ability to command an army of robots and not having to rely on humans with free with that can turn against you. The (increasingly) mass surveillance society we have combined with robot armies that can police you, enforce whatever rules they want, and oppress you will be imo an unstoppable force. Especially when combined with misinformation controlling the narrative and making half the population thinking there's nothing wrong with any of it.
  - ljm 3y ago
    It's not the Tories alone but the mainstream media that they are in bed with, which has an overwhelmingly right wing/neoliberal bias. The stories of Rupert Murdoch's influence on our politics are not exaggerated. The last time Labour secured an election victory on the back of a Tory government was when Tony Blair got into bed with the media and played hard ball with PR and spin, all the way back in 1997. I've no idea what Starmer's strategy is but it seems to be successfully keeping the media's attention on the current government's incompetence.
    - 3seashells 3y ago
      Murdoch is still alive?
      - toyg 3y ago
        His network of cronies very much is, from Rebekah Brooks to Piers Morgan. They still pull in the same direction.
      - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
        He is busy at this time of year.
      - UncleSlacky 3y ago
        The good die young (see also: Henry Kissinger).
    - CommanderData 3y ago
      The media Tory relationship is very understated. The media is very much the reason most of the British electorate will still vote Conservatives, even after years of scandals.
      - gadders 3y ago
        "Everyone who doesn't vote like me has been taken in by the media. Only people who agree with me are smart enough to see through it."
  - nradov 3y ago
    If your own policies are so easily weaponized against you then maybe your policies aren't very good. Is it so hard to believe that regular voters might have ideological reasons for preferring a smaller, less intrusive government that imposes lower taxes? And blaming a hostile media is entirely too facile. Other politicians and parties have managed to win despite such obstacles by crafting messages that actually inspire voters.
    - zht 3y ago
      Like brexit right
      - waihtis 3y ago
        whether that was the right choice will be seen in a 20 year timespan, given how soviet-like the direction EU has started taking looks like they might end up winners in this equation.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > given how soviet-like the direction EU has started taking looks Then they should have left in twenty years. Britain has managed one of the more drastic peacetime reductions in wealth, influence and stability of any rich country post WWII.
        callamdelaney 3y ago
        That's objectively false.
        ben_w 3y ago
        The collapse of the USSR to Russia et al might count as a "rich" country doing worse. Can you name any others? Now I think about it, I suppose the loss of the British Empire itself might be one… after all, that was what got it excited to join the European project in the first place, though given national attitudes I'm sure the fact that the French boycotted it initially probably also helped sell the idea.
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    > Labour actively avoid doing anything the Tories can spin to weaponise the electorate against them Except on immigration, where the roles are reversed [1]. That's why immigration to the UK increased post-Brexit, despite the referendum being an expression of anti-immigration sentiment [2]. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10055613/Labour-sent-out-search-parties-for-immigrants-Lord-Mandelson-admits.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10055613... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/world/europe/uk-migration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/world/europe/uk-migration...
    - gadders 3y ago
      Easier to import supportive voters than create them.
      - ben_w 3y ago
        Immigrants don't get to vote for MPs until they've become citizens[0], that takes ages and is really expensive[1]. [0] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8985/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-... [1] https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-indefinite-leave-to-remain https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-indefinite-leave-to-rem... for the citizenship itself, plus double-paying for the NHS in the meantime: https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-much-pay https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-mu...
        autoexec 3y ago
        Their kids will get to vote though
        ben_w 3y ago
        They take even longer to any electoral payoff (even if it's positive), both because of the legal minimum age and because younger people tend to participate less in elections.
  - gadders 3y ago
    The saying is in General Elections that Parties don't win them, Governments lose them. That being the case, sitting back and doing very little could be a sensible strategy.
- phatfish 3y ago
  That's what you get from an electoral system that reduces to a binary choice. Bad or worse, pick one.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- hristov 3y ago
  I beg to differ. It would be more correct to say: Labour: Try to copy the Torries in everything but intensity. Try to be slightly less awful than the Torries only to a degree necessary to convince the shell shocked and horrified voters to vote for you. This is how Labour has been operating since Tony Blair, with the minor diversion of Jeremy Corbyn. But Jeremy Corbyn was punished and dragged trough the mud so thoroughly that it is unlikely that him or anyone like him will lead Labour ever again. So we are back to Tony Blair Labour. This is all very similar to the relationship between the Republicans and Democrats in the US.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    In my opinion, Corbyn (for all that I broadly like his policies), was somewhere between Johnson and Truss with regards to actual competency — he did after all loose a motion of no confidence by 197–40.
tremon 3y ago
if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. It's been 20 years since the movie and 40 years since the comic. Things don't seem to have changed for the better in that time.
- jjulius 3y ago
  >It's been 20 years since the movie... Filing this under, "Things I Didn't Expect to Make Me Feel Old Today".
  - sideshowb 3y ago
    HWS for Hugo Weaving Soliloquies
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- fluoridation 3y ago
  I had never realized that "Adam Sutler" starts and ends the same way as "Adolf Hitler".
barrysteve 3y ago
Yay Britian is very soon to be dead! No telling the populace whom sits in the high chair, dictating the code that runs their lives. Could be anyone, including a foreign governemnt. It used to be middle management owned the message it was delivering you, and your conscience could choose to oppose them. Now electronics owns every man, woman and child in the UK. Given the obvious biometric future. And you can't negotiate or disagree with electronics. Brexit'd yourself into a corner and then locked it down biometrically.
- zabzonk 3y ago
  you do know it is spelled "Britain"? or is this some obscure joke?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - barrysteve 3y ago
    I don't use autocorrect, I type words out manually on the phone when I have a spare five minutes. It often produces typos. I'm sure you already get the concept of a typo and in effect only added your judgement of my comment in the form of a question, to the thread. Thanks, but no thanks. Hackernews (generally) is increasingly becoming that old philosophical trope: the unbearable truth must be shown to be false.
    - zabzonk 3y ago
      i have read other posts by you here which has the same usage and are similarly unpleasant - hence my question.
      - opless 3y ago
        Don't feed the trolls.
hristov 3y ago
Boo hoo! A bunch of liberal whiners. There is a good old fashioned saying: If you do the crime, you do the time. Also, if somebody that kind of looks like you does the crime, you do the time. Furthermore, if someone that does not look like you at all does the crime but the AI system decides that person is you by a process so complex that nobody, not even the people that programmed the AI system can understand, you do the time. Also, if no crime has been committed, but the AI system decides to hallucinate up a crime and decides that you committed that imaginary crime, you do the time. How hard is that? Just simple old fashioned bedrock morality! Simple personal
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- echelon_musk 3y ago
  I've come to resent sarcastic responses like this. I think they play into a feeling of superiority that it's obvious from the perspective of a member of technical in-group that this is a terrible idea. It is clearly not obvious to the general population and almost certainly clear to those pushing for these kinds of legislation changes. So you get to feel superior for realising that here be dragons that normies can't see. I don't know how to deal with the apathy in the face of relentless attempts from government and institutions to increase surveillance and reduce freedom. I suppose these responses confront me with how much apathy there is. I don't know whether it's worth fighting to try and improve the future of the country or just to leave.
  - hristov 3y ago
    Ah, but I did explain it in a way even a member of the general population can understand it.

99 points by CTOSian 3y ago

Good riddance

Tories: vandalise anything on the way out for profit for their mates. Labour: Do nothing to reverse these as liberty's not a priority for the social equality ego theme du jour in fashion for the decade.

stranded22 3y ago
Labour not in power.
weevil 3y ago
> social equality ego theme du jour Labour actively avoid doing anything the Tories can spin to weaponise the electorate against them. They don't feel bold enough to reverse anything the Tories have done, because the Tories will spin it as Labour taking away our freedoms or charging us too much tax whatever nonsense.
- hanniabu 3y ago
  We're seeing the same in the US. I wonder the where this rise in authoritarianism will lead, especially in the current timeframe where it's so easy to push out misinformation to win narratives and robotic armies you can control with a small team are right around the corner. Pretty soon revolutions will be impossible and the masses will be slaves to whatever conditions the rulers desire. Dark times are nigh.
  - kbrkbr 3y ago
    Once there was another republic and empire. It also had a Senate, the original one. In this republic populism became also strong, there were even civil wars. Later strong army leaders removed the republic (and then reinstated it on paper). It was not necessarily a dark time for their minions (Pax Augusta). In the end the empire broke down in the west. Much later also in the east, but some say it lives on in the Russian empire (for example Putin). Often enough in history though if a society moved fast in one direction, it would regress to the mean. We'll see.
    - hanniabu 3y ago
      The difference is the ability to command an army of robots and not having to rely on humans with free with that can turn against you. The (increasingly) mass surveillance society we have combined with robot armies that can police you, enforce whatever rules they want, and oppress you will be imo an unstoppable force. Especially when combined with misinformation controlling the narrative and making half the population thinking there's nothing wrong with any of it.
- ljm 3y ago
  It's not the Tories alone but the mainstream media that they are in bed with, which has an overwhelmingly right wing/neoliberal bias. The stories of Rupert Murdoch's influence on our politics are not exaggerated. The last time Labour secured an election victory on the back of a Tory government was when Tony Blair got into bed with the media and played hard ball with PR and spin, all the way back in 1997. I've no idea what Starmer's strategy is but it seems to be successfully keeping the media's attention on the current government's incompetence.
  - 3seashells 3y ago
    Murdoch is still alive?
    - toyg 3y ago
      His network of cronies very much is, from Rebekah Brooks to Piers Morgan. They still pull in the same direction.
    - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
      He is busy at this time of year.
    - UncleSlacky 3y ago
      The good die young (see also: Henry Kissinger).
  - CommanderData 3y ago
    The media Tory relationship is very understated. The media is very much the reason most of the British electorate will still vote Conservatives, even after years of scandals.
    - gadders 3y ago
      "Everyone who doesn't vote like me has been taken in by the media. Only people who agree with me are smart enough to see through it."
- nradov 3y ago
  If your own policies are so easily weaponized against you then maybe your policies aren't very good. Is it so hard to believe that regular voters might have ideological reasons for preferring a smaller, less intrusive government that imposes lower taxes? And blaming a hostile media is entirely too facile. Other politicians and parties have managed to win despite such obstacles by crafting messages that actually inspire voters.
  - zht 3y ago
    Like brexit right
    - waihtis 3y ago
      whether that was the right choice will be seen in a 20 year timespan, given how soviet-like the direction EU has started taking looks like they might end up winners in this equation.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > given how soviet-like the direction EU has started taking looks Then they should have left in twenty years. Britain has managed one of the more drastic peacetime reductions in wealth, influence and stability of any rich country post WWII.
        callamdelaney 3y ago
        That's objectively false.
        ben_w 3y ago
        The collapse of the USSR to Russia et al might count as a "rich" country doing worse. Can you name any others? Now I think about it, I suppose the loss of the British Empire itself might be one… after all, that was what got it excited to join the European project in the first place, though given national attitudes I'm sure the fact that the French boycotted it initially probably also helped sell the idea.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  > Labour actively avoid doing anything the Tories can spin to weaponise the electorate against them Except on immigration, where the roles are reversed [1]. That's why immigration to the UK increased post-Brexit, despite the referendum being an expression of anti-immigration sentiment [2]. [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10055613/Labour-sent-out-search-parties-for-immigrants-Lord-Mandelson-admits.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10055613... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/world/europe/uk-migration.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/25/world/europe/uk-migration...
  - gadders 3y ago
    Easier to import supportive voters than create them.
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Immigrants don't get to vote for MPs until they've become citizens[0], that takes ages and is really expensive[1]. [0] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8985/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-... [1] https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-indefinite-leave-to-remain https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-indefinite-leave-to-rem... for the citizenship itself, plus double-paying for the NHS in the meantime: https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-much-pay https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-mu...
      - autoexec 3y ago
        Their kids will get to vote though
        ben_w 3y ago
        They take even longer to any electoral payoff (even if it's positive), both because of the legal minimum age and because younger people tend to participate less in elections.
- gadders 3y ago
  The saying is in General Elections that Parties don't win them, Governments lose them. That being the case, sitting back and doing very little could be a sensible strategy.
phatfish 3y ago
That's what you get from an electoral system that reduces to a binary choice. Bad or worse, pick one.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hristov 3y ago
I beg to differ. It would be more correct to say: Labour: Try to copy the Torries in everything but intensity. Try to be slightly less awful than the Torries only to a degree necessary to convince the shell shocked and horrified voters to vote for you. This is how Labour has been operating since Tony Blair, with the minor diversion of Jeremy Corbyn. But Jeremy Corbyn was punished and dragged trough the mud so thoroughly that it is unlikely that him or anyone like him will lead Labour ever again. So we are back to Tony Blair Labour. This is all very similar to the relationship between the Republicans and Democrats in the US.
- ben_w 3y ago
  In my opinion, Corbyn (for all that I broadly like his policies), was somewhere between Johnson and Truss with regards to actual competency — he did after all loose a motion of no confidence by 197–40.

tremon 3y ago

if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. It's been 20 years since the movie and 40 years since the comic. Things don't seem to have changed for the better in that time.

jjulius 3y ago
>It's been 20 years since the movie... Filing this under, "Things I Didn't Expect to Make Me Feel Old Today".
- sideshowb 3y ago
  HWS for Hugo Weaving Soliloquies
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
fluoridation 3y ago
I had never realized that "Adam Sutler" starts and ends the same way as "Adolf Hitler".

barrysteve 3y ago

Yay Britian is very soon to be dead! No telling the populace whom sits in the high chair, dictating the code that runs their lives. Could be anyone, including a foreign governemnt. It used to be middle management owned the message it was delivering you, and your conscience could choose to oppose them. Now electronics owns every man, woman and child in the UK. Given the obvious biometric future. And you can't negotiate or disagree with electronics. Brexit'd yourself into a corner and then locked it down biometrically.

zabzonk 3y ago
you do know it is spelled "Britain"? or is this some obscure joke?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- barrysteve 3y ago
  I don't use autocorrect, I type words out manually on the phone when I have a spare five minutes. It often produces typos. I'm sure you already get the concept of a typo and in effect only added your judgement of my comment in the form of a question, to the thread. Thanks, but no thanks. Hackernews (generally) is increasingly becoming that old philosophical trope: the unbearable truth must be shown to be false.
  - zabzonk 3y ago
    i have read other posts by you here which has the same usage and are similarly unpleasant - hence my question.
    - opless 3y ago
      Don't feed the trolls.

hristov 3y ago

Boo hoo! A bunch of liberal whiners. There is a good old fashioned saying: If you do the crime, you do the time. Also, if somebody that kind of looks like you does the crime, you do the time. Furthermore, if someone that does not look like you at all does the crime but the AI system decides that person is you by a process so complex that nobody, not even the people that programmed the AI system can understand, you do the time. Also, if no crime has been committed, but the AI system decides to hallucinate up a crime and decides that you committed that imaginary crime, you do the time. How hard is that? Just simple old fashioned bedrock morality! Simple personal

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
echelon_musk 3y ago
I've come to resent sarcastic responses like this. I think they play into a feeling of superiority that it's obvious from the perspective of a member of technical in-group that this is a terrible idea. It is clearly not obvious to the general population and almost certainly clear to those pushing for these kinds of legislation changes. So you get to feel superior for realising that here be dragons that normies can't see. I don't know how to deal with the apathy in the face of relentless attempts from government and institutions to increase surveillance and reduce freedom. I suppose these responses confront me with how much apathy there is. I don't know whether it's worth fighting to try and improve the future of the country or just to leave.
- hristov 3y ago
  Ah, but I did explain it in a way even a member of the general population can understand it.