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Not really that surprising when you have reports such as these: > https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 > http

Not really that surprising when you have reports such as these: > https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 > https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/02/nintendo-is-raising-its-employee-pay-by-10percent-in-japan https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/02/nintendo-is-raisin... It's important to notice that both of these initiatives happened when the company was facing downturns. It is easy to be a good employer when things are going great, not so much when things are not as rosy. Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general.

nazka 3y ago
I feel like they are managing a tech company like you would manage a 300 old Japanese workshop and still be there for next 300 years.
velcrovan 3y ago
Whereas in the US: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022103122001615 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00221... (from HN a few days ago IIRC)
kmlx 3y ago
> Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general. imo this is by far the biggest driver of “keeping talent”. japanese society and businesses don’t reward people that jump from job to job.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  This can have negative effects too. While I don't think "society" (who's that?) rewards people who job-hop. However, being willing to move to the employer who values you the most every couple of years is bound to increase your salary, because you're optimising your match to the market. I wonder how Japanese businesses avoid recognising this value, unless they just frown on people moving around.
  - kmlx 3y ago
    true, but japanese society values stability more than anything. as such, the value of increasing salary by job-hopping is dwarfed by the unpredictability it generates. but there are a lot of other negative effects. being stuck in a dead-end job is a common issue for example. of course, i am heavily generalising here, so grain of salt and all of that.
    - my12parsecs 3y ago
      Japan is basically socialism when it comes to values and the actions people take. Limited tolerance for big change or extreme competition, very static communities and low mobility. It used to work uptill the 80's, but in the age of innovation and change, it's backfiring.
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        That's not what socialism means. Socialism is state-controlled means of production, IIRC.
        a_cardboard_box 3y ago
        Socialism is worker-controlled means of production. State-controlled means of production is socialism if the workers control the state (which is generally not the case for states that call themselves "socialist").
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        Youre kidding yourself if you think the average worker in Japan has much say in the company, or how those companies direct the state they're conservative, in the sense they don't like change, but that ain't nothin to do w/ Karl M
        a_cardboard_box 3y ago
- slothtrop 3y ago
  Once upon a time, things weren't so different here. Maybe there wasn't an explicit value judgement but you could expect to work 30 years in the same establishment.
- hirvi74 3y ago
  > japanese society and businesses don’t reward people that jump from job to job. I can see why this is good and bad, but honestly, I wish more places in the West were like this too. I've had the same job for 7 years as a programmer, and it baffles me how many people find that surprising/unusual. I seriously rather not look for another job, but I due to some upcoming changes at my work, I think I may have to.
bitwize 3y ago
I think that Japanese attitudes towards work have somewhat shifted, especially as young Japanese eyes look a bit enviously to Western tech companies, with their inflated pay and fun culture. Really, the protracted recession they've had for a few decades has sown the idea that nothing is really guaranteed anymore like it was from postwar to about the 90s. Nevertheless, given that the five developers in question started work in the 70s or 80s, when the Japanese work ethic of "bust your ass for a company all your life and they'll take care of you" was very much a thing, it doesn't surprise me that they've all stuck with Nintendo, which itself seems in it for the long haul like a traditional Japanese company. The company has been very good about knowledge transfer from older generations to younger, in ways some developers (e.g. Sega) haven't. Mario and Zelda, for instance, are not being spearheaded by Miyamoto anymore. He pops in on conference calls to offer guidance, but the developers who worked under him have now taken the helm of these franchises, driving them in new directions while preserving their essence... and Miyamoto is free to pursue passion projects like movies and theme parks (thus actually becoming "gaming's Walt Disney").
Aeolun 3y ago
Nintendo has a pretty massive war chest though. Increasing salaries by 10% is not likely to significantly impact their expenses/income.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  I don't know of many companies that increase salaries or have executives take pay cuts while sparing employees during downturns, irrespective of how large their war chests. Much to the opposite, I am more used at seeing companies layoff employees while posting record profits.
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    The falling Yen prompted many Japanese employers to give raises across the board. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/economy-business/major-japan-firms-agree-wage-hikes/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/econom...
unicornmama 3y ago
Whereas US business execs make mass layoffs while cashing out hundreds of millions in equity. But at least they take “full responsibility”!

nazka 3y ago

I feel like they are managing a tech company like you would manage a 300 old Japanese workshop and still be there for next 300 years.

velcrovan 3y ago

Whereas in the US: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022103122001615 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00221... (from HN a few days ago IIRC)

kmlx 3y ago

> Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general. imo this is by far the biggest driver of “keeping talent”. japanese society and businesses don’t reward people that jump from job to job.

robertlagrant 3y ago
This can have negative effects too. While I don't think "society" (who's that?) rewards people who job-hop. However, being willing to move to the employer who values you the most every couple of years is bound to increase your salary, because you're optimising your match to the market. I wonder how Japanese businesses avoid recognising this value, unless they just frown on people moving around.
- kmlx 3y ago
  true, but japanese society values stability more than anything. as such, the value of increasing salary by job-hopping is dwarfed by the unpredictability it generates. but there are a lot of other negative effects. being stuck in a dead-end job is a common issue for example. of course, i am heavily generalising here, so grain of salt and all of that.
  - my12parsecs 3y ago
    Japan is basically socialism when it comes to values and the actions people take. Limited tolerance for big change or extreme competition, very static communities and low mobility. It used to work uptill the 80's, but in the age of innovation and change, it's backfiring.
    - dragontamer 3y ago
      That's not what socialism means. Socialism is state-controlled means of production, IIRC.
      - a_cardboard_box 3y ago
        Socialism is worker-controlled means of production. State-controlled means of production is socialism if the workers control the state (which is generally not the case for states that call themselves "socialist").
        red-iron-pine 3y ago
        Youre kidding yourself if you think the average worker in Japan has much say in the company, or how those companies direct the state they're conservative, in the sense they don't like change, but that ain't nothin to do w/ Karl M
        a_cardboard_box 3y ago
slothtrop 3y ago
Once upon a time, things weren't so different here. Maybe there wasn't an explicit value judgement but you could expect to work 30 years in the same establishment.
hirvi74 3y ago
> japanese society and businesses don’t reward people that jump from job to job. I can see why this is good and bad, but honestly, I wish more places in the West were like this too. I've had the same job for 7 years as a programmer, and it baffles me how many people find that surprising/unusual. I seriously rather not look for another job, but I due to some upcoming changes at my work, I think I may have to.

bitwize 3y ago

I think that Japanese attitudes towards work have somewhat shifted, especially as young Japanese eyes look a bit enviously to Western tech companies, with their inflated pay and fun culture. Really, the protracted recession they've had for a few decades has sown the idea that nothing is really guaranteed anymore like it was from postwar to about the 90s. Nevertheless, given that the five developers in question started work in the 70s or 80s, when the Japanese work ethic of "bust your ass for a company all your life and they'll take care of you" was very much a thing, it doesn't surprise me that they've all stuck with Nintendo, which itself seems in it for the long haul like a traditional Japanese company. The company has been very good about knowledge transfer from older generations to younger, in ways some developers (e.g. Sega) haven't. Mario and Zelda, for instance, are not being spearheaded by Miyamoto anymore. He pops in on conference calls to offer guidance, but the developers who worked under him have now taken the helm of these franchises, driving them in new directions while preserving their essence... and Miyamoto is free to pursue passion projects like movies and theme parks (thus actually becoming "gaming's Walt Disney").

Aeolun 3y ago

Nintendo has a pretty massive war chest though. Increasing salaries by 10% is not likely to significantly impact their expenses/income.

surgical_fire 3y ago
I don't know of many companies that increase salaries or have executives take pay cuts while sparing employees during downturns, irrespective of how large their war chests. Much to the opposite, I am more used at seeing companies layoff employees while posting record profits.
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  The falling Yen prompted many Japanese employers to give raises across the board. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/economy-business/major-japan-firms-agree-wage-hikes/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/econom...

unicornmama 3y ago

Whereas US business execs make mass layoffs while cashing out hundreds of millions in equity. But at least they take “full responsibility”!