7 ms·

I didn't really realize that Nintendo was that good at keeping talent. I guess it kinda makes sense, they seem to have a vastly different culture than game deve

I didn't really realize that Nintendo was that good at keeping talent. I guess it kinda makes sense, they seem to have a vastly different culture than game developers have here. It is also interesting to compare this to the stories that came out of breath of the wild of them specifically asking their newer developers for the crazy ideas and that leading to how great BoTW was. However given just how crazy Wonder is I have to imagine this was still the case here. Super Mario Bros Wonder really is an amazing game. I have struggled at times with putting it down and going to bed. This will likely be my first 100% Mario game. (Can we talk about the Singing Piranha Plants in the second level!)

surgical_fire 3y ago
Not really that surprising when you have reports such as these: > https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 > https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/02/nintendo-is-raising-its-employee-pay-by-10percent-in-japan https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/02/nintendo-is-raisin... It's important to notice that both of these initiatives happened when the company was facing downturns. It is easy to be a good employer when things are going great, not so much when things are not as rosy. Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general.
- nazka 3y ago
  I feel like they are managing a tech company like you would manage a 300 old Japanese workshop and still be there for next 300 years.
- velcrovan 3y ago
  Whereas in the US: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022103122001615 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00221... (from HN a few days ago IIRC)
- kmlx 3y ago
  > Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general. imo this is by far the biggest driver of “keeping talent”. japanese society and businesses don’t reward people that jump from job to job.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    This can have negative effects too. While I don't think "society" (who's that?) rewards people who job-hop. However, being willing to move to the employer who values you the most every couple of years is bound to increase your salary, because you're optimising your match to the market. I wonder how Japanese businesses avoid recognising this value, unless they just frown on people moving around.
    - kmlx 3y ago
      true, but japanese society values stability more than anything. as such, the value of increasing salary by job-hopping is dwarfed by the unpredictability it generates. but there are a lot of other negative effects. being stuck in a dead-end job is a common issue for example. of course, i am heavily generalising here, so grain of salt and all of that.
      - my12parsecs 3y ago
        Japan is basically socialism when it comes to values and the actions people take. Limited tolerance for big change or extreme competition, very static communities and low mobility. It used to work uptill the 80's, but in the age of innovation and change, it's backfiring.
        dragontamer 3y ago
        That's not what socialism means. Socialism is state-controlled means of production, IIRC.
        3y ago
- bitwize 3y ago
  I think that Japanese attitudes towards work have somewhat shifted, especially as young Japanese eyes look a bit enviously to Western tech companies, with their inflated pay and fun culture. Really, the protracted recession they've had for a few decades has sown the idea that nothing is really guaranteed anymore like it was from postwar to about the 90s. Nevertheless, given that the five developers in question started work in the 70s or 80s, when the Japanese work ethic of "bust your ass for a company all your life and they'll take care of you" was very much a thing, it doesn't surprise me that they've all stuck with Nintendo, which itself seems in it for the long haul like a traditional Japanese company. The company has been very good about knowledge transfer from older generations to younger, in ways some developers (e.g. Sega) haven't. Mario and Zelda, for instance, are not being spearheaded by Miyamoto anymore. He pops in on conference calls to offer guidance, but the developers who worked under him have now taken the helm of these franchises, driving them in new directions while preserving their essence... and Miyamoto is free to pursue passion projects like movies and theme parks (thus actually becoming "gaming's Walt Disney").
- Aeolun 3y ago
  Nintendo has a pretty massive war chest though. Increasing salaries by 10% is not likely to significantly impact their expenses/income.
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    I don't know of many companies that increase salaries or have executives take pay cuts while sparing employees during downturns, irrespective of how large their war chests. Much to the opposite, I am more used at seeing companies layoff employees while posting record profits.
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      The falling Yen prompted many Japanese employers to give raises across the board. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/economy-business/major-japan-firms-agree-wage-hikes/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/econom...
- unicornmama 3y ago
  Whereas US business execs make mass layoffs while cashing out hundreds of millions in equity. But at least they take “full responsibility”!
prmoustache 3y ago
How much is corporate culture vs particular local culture?
cdelsolar 3y ago
The singing piranha plants made me immediately fall in love with this wonderful game. My toddler now tries to play along too, can’t wait till he’s a little older so we can do two player mode.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  That being the second level really set the tone for it. My boyfriend was watching me play and "forced" me to replay it a few more times after that happened. We were both just shocked.
- roger_ 3y ago
  Loved the singing piranha plants, but have to give credit to Rayman Legends who did something similar 12 years ago.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    A music theme level isn't the same thing as a level where the monsters are singing and clapping. The piranha plants have lip synced singing and clapping which makes most of the music. When a new plant enters the scene you can here the new voice starting, kill it and that voice dies. For example, in rayman legends they have music and then spawn monsters with the instruments of the music, but those monsters has nothing to do with the music since the music is a static track, killing them or them spawning doesn't change anything.
    - fennecfoxy 3y ago
      Are you...trying to say that they weren't potentially inspired by something else? Because they almost certainly were, whether it was Rayman or something else. It's okay for them to seek inspiration and for all of their ideas to not be completely original. It's acting cult-ish otherwise.
wodenokoto 3y ago
I think it was game makers toolkit that did an episode on Mario Odyssey. If I remember correctly it was a new (for the series) director and the theme of the game was “different and surprising”, so for example, every desert theme in Mario had been themed around Egypt but this time it was themed around Mexico (and cold!) My hot take is odyssey was a success and the idea of “different and surprising” as a guide for a new 2D platform we is what gave Nintendo Mario Wonder.
AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
> It is also interesting to compare this to the stories that came out of breath of the wild of them specifically asking their newer developers for the crazy ideas and that leading to how great BoTW was. However given just how crazy Wonder is I have to imagine this was still the case here. It's a double-edged sword, because Nintendo is also a top-down organization and much of their infamous "behind the curve" issues when it comes to online functionality has been attributed to the top brass not being familiar with it/not thinking it's important. BOTW was kinda the exception that proves the rule. But maybe with its wild success they are finally starting to change.
xnx 3y ago
The "Bowser’s Fury" portion of "Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury" is also a delight.
- tootie 3y ago
  Also, the Bowser's Fury ride at Universal Studios. Idk if the same team worked on the design of that ride, but it's really incredible. The most immersive AR experience I've ever seen.
molticrystal 3y ago
>Can we talk about the Singing Piranha Plants in the second level! I told a relative the following when I tried the game day one, I am just glad Mario is not a pilot. Those jokes that Mario is tripping on mushrooms are made real in Super Mario Bros. Wonder. That is the easiest way to describe the game. You collect a "Flower" and pipes come to life, enemy plants start singing quartets to you. Otherwise the game reminds me a lot of SMB3+Super Mario World.
m3kw9 3y ago
Also helping is Japanese culture of working at the same company as sort of a badge of honour and also seniority seem like a huge thing
swah 3y ago
That makes me happy to read, as I bought a Switch (probably the last person to do so) to play "a little bit"...
gambiting 3y ago
>>I guess it kinda makes sense, they seem to have a vastly different culture than game developers have here. I mean the place where I work still employs several people who worked on the original Driver game - couple of them already crossed the 30-year tenure threshold too. So I don't know where "here" is for you, but it's definitely not exclusive to Nintendo or Japan. 38 years is impressive though.

surgical_fire 3y ago

Not really that surprising when you have reports such as these: > https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-25941070 > https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/02/nintendo-is-raising-its-employee-pay-by-10percent-in-japan https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/02/nintendo-is-raisin... It's important to notice that both of these initiatives happened when the company was facing downturns. It is easy to be a good employer when things are going great, not so much when things are not as rosy. Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general.

nazka 3y ago
I feel like they are managing a tech company like you would manage a 300 old Japanese workshop and still be there for next 300 years.
velcrovan 3y ago
Whereas in the US: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022103122001615 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00221... (from HN a few days ago IIRC)
kmlx 3y ago
> Add that to the Japanese working culture where tenure is merit, and staying in the same company is valued by employers in general. imo this is by far the biggest driver of “keeping talent”. japanese society and businesses don’t reward people that jump from job to job.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  This can have negative effects too. While I don't think "society" (who's that?) rewards people who job-hop. However, being willing to move to the employer who values you the most every couple of years is bound to increase your salary, because you're optimising your match to the market. I wonder how Japanese businesses avoid recognising this value, unless they just frown on people moving around.
  - kmlx 3y ago
    true, but japanese society values stability more than anything. as such, the value of increasing salary by job-hopping is dwarfed by the unpredictability it generates. but there are a lot of other negative effects. being stuck in a dead-end job is a common issue for example. of course, i am heavily generalising here, so grain of salt and all of that.
    - my12parsecs 3y ago
      Japan is basically socialism when it comes to values and the actions people take. Limited tolerance for big change or extreme competition, very static communities and low mobility. It used to work uptill the 80's, but in the age of innovation and change, it's backfiring.
      - dragontamer 3y ago
        That's not what socialism means. Socialism is state-controlled means of production, IIRC.
        3y ago
bitwize 3y ago
I think that Japanese attitudes towards work have somewhat shifted, especially as young Japanese eyes look a bit enviously to Western tech companies, with their inflated pay and fun culture. Really, the protracted recession they've had for a few decades has sown the idea that nothing is really guaranteed anymore like it was from postwar to about the 90s. Nevertheless, given that the five developers in question started work in the 70s or 80s, when the Japanese work ethic of "bust your ass for a company all your life and they'll take care of you" was very much a thing, it doesn't surprise me that they've all stuck with Nintendo, which itself seems in it for the long haul like a traditional Japanese company. The company has been very good about knowledge transfer from older generations to younger, in ways some developers (e.g. Sega) haven't. Mario and Zelda, for instance, are not being spearheaded by Miyamoto anymore. He pops in on conference calls to offer guidance, but the developers who worked under him have now taken the helm of these franchises, driving them in new directions while preserving their essence... and Miyamoto is free to pursue passion projects like movies and theme parks (thus actually becoming "gaming's Walt Disney").
Aeolun 3y ago
Nintendo has a pretty massive war chest though. Increasing salaries by 10% is not likely to significantly impact their expenses/income.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  I don't know of many companies that increase salaries or have executives take pay cuts while sparing employees during downturns, irrespective of how large their war chests. Much to the opposite, I am more used at seeing companies layoff employees while posting record profits.
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    The falling Yen prompted many Japanese employers to give raises across the board. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/economy-business/major-japan-firms-agree-wage-hikes/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/03/15/business/econom...
unicornmama 3y ago
Whereas US business execs make mass layoffs while cashing out hundreds of millions in equity. But at least they take “full responsibility”!

prmoustache 3y ago

How much is corporate culture vs particular local culture?

cdelsolar 3y ago

The singing piranha plants made me immediately fall in love with this wonderful game. My toddler now tries to play along too, can’t wait till he’s a little older so we can do two player mode.

nerdjon 3y ago
That being the second level really set the tone for it. My boyfriend was watching me play and "forced" me to replay it a few more times after that happened. We were both just shocked.
roger_ 3y ago
Loved the singing piranha plants, but have to give credit to Rayman Legends who did something similar 12 years ago.
- Jensson 3y ago
  A music theme level isn't the same thing as a level where the monsters are singing and clapping. The piranha plants have lip synced singing and clapping which makes most of the music. When a new plant enters the scene you can here the new voice starting, kill it and that voice dies. For example, in rayman legends they have music and then spawn monsters with the instruments of the music, but those monsters has nothing to do with the music since the music is a static track, killing them or them spawning doesn't change anything.
  - fennecfoxy 3y ago
    Are you...trying to say that they weren't potentially inspired by something else? Because they almost certainly were, whether it was Rayman or something else. It's okay for them to seek inspiration and for all of their ideas to not be completely original. It's acting cult-ish otherwise.

wodenokoto 3y ago

I think it was game makers toolkit that did an episode on Mario Odyssey. If I remember correctly it was a new (for the series) director and the theme of the game was “different and surprising”, so for example, every desert theme in Mario had been themed around Egypt but this time it was themed around Mexico (and cold!) My hot take is odyssey was a success and the idea of “different and surprising” as a guide for a new 2D platform we is what gave Nintendo Mario Wonder.

AdmiralAsshat 3y ago

> It is also interesting to compare this to the stories that came out of breath of the wild of them specifically asking their newer developers for the crazy ideas and that leading to how great BoTW was. However given just how crazy Wonder is I have to imagine this was still the case here. It's a double-edged sword, because Nintendo is also a top-down organization and much of their infamous "behind the curve" issues when it comes to online functionality has been attributed to the top brass not being familiar with it/not thinking it's important. BOTW was kinda the exception that proves the rule. But maybe with its wild success they are finally starting to change.

xnx 3y ago

The "Bowser’s Fury" portion of "Super Mario 3D World + Bowser’s Fury" is also a delight.

tootie 3y ago
Also, the Bowser's Fury ride at Universal Studios. Idk if the same team worked on the design of that ride, but it's really incredible. The most immersive AR experience I've ever seen.

molticrystal 3y ago

>Can we talk about the Singing Piranha Plants in the second level! I told a relative the following when I tried the game day one, I am just glad Mario is not a pilot. Those jokes that Mario is tripping on mushrooms are made real in Super Mario Bros. Wonder. That is the easiest way to describe the game. You collect a "Flower" and pipes come to life, enemy plants start singing quartets to you. Otherwise the game reminds me a lot of SMB3+Super Mario World.

m3kw9 3y ago

Also helping is Japanese culture of working at the same company as sort of a badge of honour and also seniority seem like a huge thing

swah 3y ago

That makes me happy to read, as I bought a Switch (probably the last person to do so) to play "a little bit"...

gambiting 3y ago

>>I guess it kinda makes sense, they seem to have a vastly different culture than game developers have here. I mean the place where I work still employs several people who worked on the original Driver game - couple of them already crossed the 30-year tenure threshold too. So I don't know where "here" is for you, but it's definitely not exclusive to Nintendo or Japan. 38 years is impressive though.