8 ms·

Solitary Confinement's Unlikely Origins

65 points by tintinnabula 3y ago

underseacables 3y ago
Related, if you're ever in Philadelphia, I suggest visiting, eastern state penitentiary, the first penitentiary in America. For many years, everyone was basically in solitary confinement. Very sobering place.
- Exoristos 3y ago
  Dickens' account of his tour of this place (and he was all for the "progress" solitary confinement represented then) makes it seem like the worst kind of torture. However, it stuck out to me that, at that time, solitary prisoners were _provided with hand work of their choice_. So today's version is more barbaric.
qingcharles 3y ago
I've done some time in solitary. It is a weird thing. My first time I was totally unprepared and so sat naked in a cold, empty cell for a couple of days before I could improve my situation. As with anything, you learn, and my second time I managed to kick a book into my cell without the jailers noticing as they put me in there. A book is 14 hours of entertainment for your brain. Solitary is designed as "prison within prison." It is for offenses committed inside jail or prison. Because you are already confined and fucked-up in prison they have to have somewhere even more confined and fucked-up for you to go if they don't like what you do. Obviously when you're in solitary there is nowhere lower for you to go, so all they can do then is mess with your head. Last year I was put in solitary confinement in a jail for violation of a jail rule, even though I was living at my home. I think this is perhaps the first time that has happened in US history? I had sent a magazine to a friend in the jail. The jail alleged that it must have drugs on it because it smelled funny. It didn't. It was just the fresh ink. They charged me with two jail infractions "Abuse of the mail" and "Endangerment of public safety". Two offenses that are published nowhere. And certainly would only apply to someone who was already inside the jail, not someone living at home. A newspaper got hold of the story and asked the jail if they had done any tests on the magazine, which of course they had not. After a week of me writing grievances they eventually released me from solitary, realizing they had grossly violated my constitutional rights. Edit: Just to note, all my times in solitary were for activism; taking on my jailers for their misdeeds and unlawful activities.
- dmbche 3y ago
  Were you able to sue for damages? It's quite flagrant that your rights have been infringed upon, from reading this. Or do you just not have recourse?
  - qingcharles 3y ago
    It's actually fucked-up that I totally forgot about this until writing this post. I find that my brain tries to erase a lot of the shit I've been through and block it out. I'm a serial litigant and I should have sued. You have a one year statute of limitation on most torts here in Illinois, so I've blown past that, but on federal constitutional violations the SoL is 2 years, so I could still sue for that and get relief. I'll have to think about it since I am very weary and litigation takes literally years, and often more than a decade. I'm years into litigation with the same police dept. right now about another constitutional violation and it is just 100-page motions each way every month and it gets very tiring. Millions of dollars of lawyer fees just to avoid paying $10K settlement on a case they have already lost.
    - dmbche 3y ago
      I absolutely understand - I'm sorry of the situation you are in, I'm certain it's exhausting, and it shouldn't be on you. I'm way out of my depth, but maybe you could reach out to victim's advocacy groups (you might very well have already!) to get some measure of support and guidance. As you mentionned, the SoL is limiting for your case, and it could be a good idea to see if you could file something and delay it until the other litigation is done. Again - I'm as out of my depth as can be. Also - just a thought - maybe you could reach out to news outlets or legal oriented content producers (Legal Eagle, Attorney Tom and the likes). The story you told here is harrowing and most journalists would jump on it right away, which could possibly be helpful, but it adds a lot to your plate. Wish you all the best going forward.
      - qingcharles 3y ago
        Thank you. You also reminded me that I never heard back from any of the misconduct investigations I started against the various officers. I will FOIA now and update. There was one incident where I was walking out of jail and two officers from another jurisdiction, operating outside of their legal authority, cuffed me up, without any arrest warrant and put me in jail and I was held for over three years on that one alone. I want to see what the reports on that one say. I also filed one against the sheriff as I found an old law which says it is a crime if the sheriff does not provide detainees with three hot meals a day, and yet we only got one a day. It is literally a crime. But how do you report a police officer committing a crime? It is practically impossible, especially when he is the guy in charge. Edit: Law is here https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2004&ChapterID=55 https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2004&C... "The Warden of the jail shall furnish each prisoner daily with as much clean water as may be necessary for drink and personal cleanliness, and serve him three times a day with wholesome food, well cooked and in sufficient quantity."
akomtu 3y ago
In the dzogchen buddhism, there is an excercise that amounts to a voluntary 2-month long solitary confinement in a small room with no light and sounds. The perception of time melts down, hallucinacions occurs, but the trainee is prepared to deal with it, and at the end reaches a clarity of mind that he couldn't have obtained otherwise. On a related note, the hells (if you believe in such things) are built around the same idea: reduction of freedom. At first the space dimensions are being lost one after another, and the hard offenders appear completely immobilized, but in return they gain an unusual clarity of mind to think about their deeds. If that's not enough, the time dimensions go away: first they turn into small loops of endless repetitions, and then disappear entirely. This final state is known as the Pit.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  British Mental health hospitals can be like that. Locked up without any jury trial which can be 24/7 solitary with hourly suicide watch checks to keep you awake and sleep deprived, drugs forcible introduced into your system that fuck your mind and health up. If you dont becomes the NHS's compliant puppet physically and mentally aka their idea of a typical model citizen, you never get let out. Its beyond inhumane and healthy, but humans have had thousands of years domesticating different animals, breeding traits in and out, which can be and have been applied to humans. The state, ie police and NHS can totally bypass the legal system and incarcerate people, in effect dissappearing them, unless the legal system allows this?!?
  - seabass-labrax 3y ago
    The legal instrument that is necessary to protect against this situation is a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA). This permits a specific other person to make decisions if the subject is deemed to lack mental capacity (that is, diagnosed as insane). Without a pre-existing Lasting Power of Attorney, the NHS may be delegated responsibility for the subject's health - which could include the mandatory drugs that you mention. It really is rather extraordinary that this is the case, but one's next of kin do not have any power or influence unless a LPA has been signed. Edit for exact (albeit heavily abridged) quote from the relevant Mental Capacity Act 2005: (9)(1) A lasting power of attorney is a power of attorney under which the donor (“P”) confers on the donee (or donees) authority to make decisions about all or any of the following— (a) P’s personal welfare or specified matters concerning P’s personal welfare ... and which includes authority to make such decisions in circumstances where P no longer has capacity. ... (9)(7)Where a lasting power of attorney authorises the donee (or, if more than one, any of them) to make decisions about P’s personal welfare, the authority— ... (c) extends to giving or refusing consent to the carrying out or continuation of a treatment by a person providing health care for P.
DoreenMichele 3y ago
By the time we get to this point, trying to "fix" it or "understand it" or whatever tends to feel pretty hopeless. I saw a blurb once that for every dollar spent on taking care of preschoolers, you save five dollars down the road on prison costs and similar. So the antidote seems to me to be to try to foster civilization -- feed people better, family-friendly policies, pro-education policies, etc. A lot of issues that should be resolved before it's this ugly don't get resolved at the "stitch in time" level and then it's a slippery slope and here we are. But suggesting you do the small, thoughtful thing -- people see that as unrelated. It's not heroic enough. They want to take on something big and defeat it. And here we are and here we stay.
- AussieWog93 3y ago
  I suspect a big part of the problem is that people who advocate for improved social services also seem to uncannily be opposed to any sort of criminal punishments at all. It makes it hard for the average person to take these suggestions seriously.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > people who advocate for improved social services also seem to uncannily be opposed to any sort of criminal punishments at all. I've never once met anyone who felt that way. I'd actually like to have the chance. People might not want criminals tortured, might not want people imprisoned unnecessarily, might not want people arrested for things that should never have been crimes in the first place, but I'm pretty skeptical that there's any substantial number of people who don't want to see serial killers kept away from the public or who feel that all crimes should go unaddressed entirely.
    - WD40forRust 3y ago
      >serial killers kept away from the public That's not punishment, that's social risk management. Punishment is the deprivation of dignity which the system imposes. Those cells should be a minimum of two-star hotel, the doors should be mostly controlled by the occupants, they should be treated in a dignified manner like any member of the public, they should be paid competitive wages for their work, any housing and restitution charges on those wages should be capped at 1/2 and commissary must charge median prices so as to encourage savings and financial independence on release, etc. There's also eliminating custodial sentencing for acute nonviolent crimes.

65 points by tintinnabula 3y ago

Related, if you're ever in Philadelphia, I suggest visiting, eastern state penitentiary, the first penitentiary in America. For many years, everyone was basically in solitary confinement. Very sobering place.

Exoristos 3y ago
Dickens' account of his tour of this place (and he was all for the "progress" solitary confinement represented then) makes it seem like the worst kind of torture. However, it stuck out to me that, at that time, solitary prisoners were _provided with hand work of their choice_. So today's version is more barbaric.

qingcharles 3y ago

I've done some time in solitary. It is a weird thing. My first time I was totally unprepared and so sat naked in a cold, empty cell for a couple of days before I could improve my situation. As with anything, you learn, and my second time I managed to kick a book into my cell without the jailers noticing as they put me in there. A book is 14 hours of entertainment for your brain. Solitary is designed as "prison within prison." It is for offenses committed inside jail or prison. Because you are already confined and fucked-up in prison they have to have somewhere even more confined and fucked-up for you to go if they don't like what you do. Obviously when you're in solitary there is nowhere lower for you to go, so all they can do then is mess with your head. Last year I was put in solitary confinement in a jail for violation of a jail rule, even though I was living at my home. I think this is perhaps the first time that has happened in US history? I had sent a magazine to a friend in the jail. The jail alleged that it must have drugs on it because it smelled funny. It didn't. It was just the fresh ink. They charged me with two jail infractions "Abuse of the mail" and "Endangerment of public safety". Two offenses that are published nowhere. And certainly would only apply to someone who was already inside the jail, not someone living at home. A newspaper got hold of the story and asked the jail if they had done any tests on the magazine, which of course they had not. After a week of me writing grievances they eventually released me from solitary, realizing they had grossly violated my constitutional rights. Edit: Just to note, all my times in solitary were for activism; taking on my jailers for their misdeeds and unlawful activities.

dmbche 3y ago
Were you able to sue for damages? It's quite flagrant that your rights have been infringed upon, from reading this. Or do you just not have recourse?
- qingcharles 3y ago
  It's actually fucked-up that I totally forgot about this until writing this post. I find that my brain tries to erase a lot of the shit I've been through and block it out. I'm a serial litigant and I should have sued. You have a one year statute of limitation on most torts here in Illinois, so I've blown past that, but on federal constitutional violations the SoL is 2 years, so I could still sue for that and get relief. I'll have to think about it since I am very weary and litigation takes literally years, and often more than a decade. I'm years into litigation with the same police dept. right now about another constitutional violation and it is just 100-page motions each way every month and it gets very tiring. Millions of dollars of lawyer fees just to avoid paying $10K settlement on a case they have already lost.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    I absolutely understand - I'm sorry of the situation you are in, I'm certain it's exhausting, and it shouldn't be on you. I'm way out of my depth, but maybe you could reach out to victim's advocacy groups (you might very well have already!) to get some measure of support and guidance. As you mentionned, the SoL is limiting for your case, and it could be a good idea to see if you could file something and delay it until the other litigation is done. Again - I'm as out of my depth as can be. Also - just a thought - maybe you could reach out to news outlets or legal oriented content producers (Legal Eagle, Attorney Tom and the likes). The story you told here is harrowing and most journalists would jump on it right away, which could possibly be helpful, but it adds a lot to your plate. Wish you all the best going forward.
    - qingcharles 3y ago
      Thank you. You also reminded me that I never heard back from any of the misconduct investigations I started against the various officers. I will FOIA now and update. There was one incident where I was walking out of jail and two officers from another jurisdiction, operating outside of their legal authority, cuffed me up, without any arrest warrant and put me in jail and I was held for over three years on that one alone. I want to see what the reports on that one say. I also filed one against the sheriff as I found an old law which says it is a crime if the sheriff does not provide detainees with three hot meals a day, and yet we only got one a day. It is literally a crime. But how do you report a police officer committing a crime? It is practically impossible, especially when he is the guy in charge. Edit: Law is here https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2004&ChapterID=55 https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=2004&C... "The Warden of the jail shall furnish each prisoner daily with as much clean water as may be necessary for drink and personal cleanliness, and serve him three times a day with wholesome food, well cooked and in sufficient quantity."

akomtu 3y ago

In the dzogchen buddhism, there is an excercise that amounts to a voluntary 2-month long solitary confinement in a small room with no light and sounds. The perception of time melts down, hallucinacions occurs, but the trainee is prepared to deal with it, and at the end reaches a clarity of mind that he couldn't have obtained otherwise. On a related note, the hells (if you believe in such things) are built around the same idea: reduction of freedom. At first the space dimensions are being lost one after another, and the hard offenders appear completely immobilized, but in return they gain an unusual clarity of mind to think about their deeds. If that's not enough, the time dimensions go away: first they turn into small loops of endless repetitions, and then disappear entirely. This final state is known as the Pit.

darkclouds 3y ago
British Mental health hospitals can be like that. Locked up without any jury trial which can be 24/7 solitary with hourly suicide watch checks to keep you awake and sleep deprived, drugs forcible introduced into your system that fuck your mind and health up. If you dont becomes the NHS's compliant puppet physically and mentally aka their idea of a typical model citizen, you never get let out. Its beyond inhumane and healthy, but humans have had thousands of years domesticating different animals, breeding traits in and out, which can be and have been applied to humans. The state, ie police and NHS can totally bypass the legal system and incarcerate people, in effect dissappearing them, unless the legal system allows this?!?
- seabass-labrax 3y ago
  The legal instrument that is necessary to protect against this situation is a Lasting Power of Attorney (LPA). This permits a specific other person to make decisions if the subject is deemed to lack mental capacity (that is, diagnosed as insane). Without a pre-existing Lasting Power of Attorney, the NHS may be delegated responsibility for the subject's health - which could include the mandatory drugs that you mention. It really is rather extraordinary that this is the case, but one's next of kin do not have any power or influence unless a LPA has been signed. Edit for exact (albeit heavily abridged) quote from the relevant Mental Capacity Act 2005: (9)(1) A lasting power of attorney is a power of attorney under which the donor (“P”) confers on the donee (or donees) authority to make decisions about all or any of the following— (a) P’s personal welfare or specified matters concerning P’s personal welfare ... and which includes authority to make such decisions in circumstances where P no longer has capacity. ... (9)(7)Where a lasting power of attorney authorises the donee (or, if more than one, any of them) to make decisions about P’s personal welfare, the authority— ... (c) extends to giving or refusing consent to the carrying out or continuation of a treatment by a person providing health care for P.

DoreenMichele 3y ago

By the time we get to this point, trying to "fix" it or "understand it" or whatever tends to feel pretty hopeless. I saw a blurb once that for every dollar spent on taking care of preschoolers, you save five dollars down the road on prison costs and similar. So the antidote seems to me to be to try to foster civilization -- feed people better, family-friendly policies, pro-education policies, etc. A lot of issues that should be resolved before it's this ugly don't get resolved at the "stitch in time" level and then it's a slippery slope and here we are. But suggesting you do the small, thoughtful thing -- people see that as unrelated. It's not heroic enough. They want to take on something big and defeat it. And here we are and here we stay.

AussieWog93 3y ago
I suspect a big part of the problem is that people who advocate for improved social services also seem to uncannily be opposed to any sort of criminal punishments at all. It makes it hard for the average person to take these suggestions seriously.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > people who advocate for improved social services also seem to uncannily be opposed to any sort of criminal punishments at all. I've never once met anyone who felt that way. I'd actually like to have the chance. People might not want criminals tortured, might not want people imprisoned unnecessarily, might not want people arrested for things that should never have been crimes in the first place, but I'm pretty skeptical that there's any substantial number of people who don't want to see serial killers kept away from the public or who feel that all crimes should go unaddressed entirely.
  - WD40forRust 3y ago
    >serial killers kept away from the public That's not punishment, that's social risk management. Punishment is the deprivation of dignity which the system imposes. Those cells should be a minimum of two-star hotel, the doors should be mostly controlled by the occupants, they should be treated in a dignified manner like any member of the public, they should be paid competitive wages for their work, any housing and restitution charges on those wages should be capped at 1/2 and commissary must charge median prices so as to encourage savings and financial independence on release, etc. There's also eliminating custodial sentencing for acute nonviolent crimes.