4 ms·

All-new solar-powered 'city car' is coming to the U.S. – it costs $6,250

23 points by neom 3y ago

tahoeskibum 3y ago
Basically a golf cart that with a max speed of 28 mph. Perfect for golf club retirees, but not the 99% of US consumers.
- happytiger 3y ago
  Why is the being downvoted? This is basically what it is. You can put lipstick on it but it’s basically a golf cart. Golf carts and that whole style of vehicle is a valid alternative for cities. I still prefer bikes but I would use a golf cart based transport network if it was safe and I didn’t have to share the road with gigantic 8000 lb suvs driven by people who keep missing their anger management appointments. The insta post this submission is based on from Elektrek.co even asks the question of whether this is just a golf cart or something actually new and exciting.
  - Someone 3y ago
    > Why is the being downvoted? I would think because of “but not the 99% of US consumers”. Vehicles such as this one can be used for a significant fraction of trips that currently are done with heavy cars. Yes, US consumers will have to change, but IMO, and I think I’m far from alone in that, that’s needed to solve the climate crisis, at least in the short term.
    - happytiger 3y ago
      I agree. It’s definitely a great idea. Good point about the 99 percent.
  - Rnonymous 3y ago
    These cars drive around Amsterdam quite a bit. They drive on the city road in between other "8000 lb" suvs. Not sure why that matters. I drive my car a 1,500kg car right next to 30,000kg trucks, was never an issue for me. I find this fascination with the size of the car and how it supposed to be a hazard quite amusing. Roads are meant to be shared between different participants. These carts are meant for the city, where everyone's speed limit is 50kph anyway, and they avoid the faster roads. For many, this is all they need.
    - happytiger 3y ago
      I think American drivers is the real concern. There is a certain percentage of people in the US who really have their heads really solidly right up their ass about sharing the road with other users. As someone who regularly bicycles and walks let me tell you just a few of the things I have personally experienced. I’ve been spit on, had drinks thrown from moving vehicles onto me, been yelled by a motorcyclist for him almost hitting me on the shoulder of a road, been fairly regularly threatened with violence for riding my bike (1-2 times a year someone just loses it), been run off the road by a pickup truck while finishing a mountain bike ride (on purpose), had diesel vehicles blow their exhaust at me when passing (common), and actually had a family member get run down two meters off the main road by someone not paying attention and rummaging through grocery bags in their backseat while driving — hit him from behind in the middle of the day. It was incredibly difficult to prosecute that case and the police and district attorney in the area really didn’t want to do anything. I could go on, but the point is that America is not Amsterdam and that “8000 lb” vehicle thing is really more of a reference to car brain idiots and the system that supports them than Gross Vehicle Weights themselves. My entire family still commutes by bike for 70-80 percent of our trips but we are committed to change, and we live in an exceptionally bike oriented city in California. I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Amsterdam and find it one of the most deeply compelling transportation systems in the world. I would be happy to use one of these vehicles, but I worry that the small army of car brain idiots in the Us would make using a vehicle like this just plain dangerous and untenable. All the best.
  - DamonHD 3y ago
    Because it's being used as an (unoriginal) term of abuse.
    - happytiger 3y ago
      How is the term abusive?
- belorn 3y ago
  That means they are competing with electric bikes, especially those 3 wheeled. Naturally there is some benefits in terms of driver comfort, but I suspect the bikes will have a more competitive price.
DamonHD 3y ago
A good counterweight to the seemingly common view that anything smaller than a tank and cannot do 60mph backwards is emasculating. There are too many large, heavy, dangerous, expensive 'cars' on the roads everywhere in the world. I can drive. I do not own a car, and I have set up my life not to need one (nor nee to fill my brain with rubbish about insurance etc), but I would consider one of these. I could even charge it from my roof or off-grid PV.
- wufufufu 3y ago
  What about safety during accidents? It's better to be driving a heavier car in that case.
  - westmeal 3y ago
    It kind of depends on the chassis' structure rather than weight. That being said the only thing more weight accomplishes is the impact is worse for anyone that isn't you.
  - DamonHD 3y ago
    It is better for the car occupants to be in a heavier car. IIRC, US road deaths of people outside the car have doubled over the last ~20Y because of the rise of the SUV and its ilk. European safety rules take into account people outside the car in the notion of 'safety'; I don't think that US safety rules do.
- bcrl 3y ago
  Cars have gotten larger because of changes in recent years to emissions laws: larger cars are permitted to have greater emissions. Naturally, this results in auto manufacturers building larger cars that are easier to make compliant to emissions laws. Force emissions to be lower and the size of vehicles will decrease. I do find it hilarious that my dad's old F150 truck made back in the 1970s is way smaller than modern trucks.
  - doubled112 3y ago
    Probably smaller then a new “small” pickup truck, like the recent Ford Ranger?
fellowniusmonk 3y ago
I want this with a truck bed, I'd kill for an electric extended bed 2000 ranger size truck.
- freeone3000 3y ago
  At 5 horsepower, towing and cargo is going to be fairly limited. I would normally suggest a trailer, but… not for this one.
- neom 3y ago
  Check out this badboy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpe3biuBIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpe3biuBIU
- cmpalmer52 3y ago
  I had a 1998 Toyota Tacoma with a full length truck bed. I swore I’d drive it until the wheels fell off. Sometime close to 250,000 miles, the u bolts rusted through on the front wheels. One fell off in a drive thru. Got it fixed and the other one checked. They said it was okay, but the other wheel fell off three weeks later. It had a few other problems - AC was leaky, interior plastic was disintegrating, so I sold it for like $1,000 about five years ago and I’ve regretted not just fixing it up and keeping it ever since. I can’t find a similar size/function truck for less than $8-10k. And new “small” trucks aren’t big enough to haul a sheet of plywood. Neither are some big ones.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Gemcar's GEM e2 looks very similar to this. And as well as a e4 an e6 (for 4 or 6 passengers) they do EL XD is a work utility version that can carry 1415 lbs or tow 1250.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  > I'd kill for an electric extended bed 2000 ranger size truck. You could lease an EV Ranger from Ford back then. Some of them still exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV
stuckkeys 3y ago
My electric scooter goes faster than that and longer range. But I can see it be handy for short distance stuff. The range is a bit of a joke considering they can probably beef that up more. Going to see the reviews how they stack up or how well they play.
iancmceachern 3y ago
Just making a box that holds passengers and meets today's crash test standards at that cost is a feat, let alone the drivetrain too.
owenversteeg 3y ago
I'm sorry, but it's a press release about potential expansion plans, the website is full of typos and they haven't started production yet... I'm skeptical. If anyone's curious about the legal aspect - it's basically a golf cart with a solar panel on top and that's more or less how it would be classified in the US, not as a car but as a NEV like the GEM EVs that are already common across the US for meter maids/security/etc. If you want one badly you can just buy a GEM NEV and slap a solar panel on the roof. The problem with these to me is the cost, this thing claims to cost 9300 euros+21% BTW = 11.2k euros = 11.8k usd for the first 100 built when and if they make them. $12k is about double $6k, sorry, and for $12k you can buy an actual car that has A/C and real heat and goes more than 28mph. If you're using one of these in NYC, for example, it's pretty crappy in the winter and summer (the entire 3 kWh battery will be eaten up by one hour of heating or two of cooling in that small metal greenhouse) and of course the trips where it would be most useful for (between Manhattan and Brooklyn/Queens) it is legally and practically prohibited from. The other problem, of course, is solar panels on a car in a city. I have actually done this (!) and even if you are conscientious about not parking under trees etc you often get days with very little production because of other obstructions - high buildings, other things parked or moved nearby, street signs shading your panels... you often only have peak output for a few hours tops and a few simple things can totally ruin those peak hours. I estimate that this thing has 300W of panel on it - Realistically with that 300Wp and VERY conscientious parking you would average maybe 560 Wh/day in NYC in August with a peak of maybe 1.5 kWh. Keep in mind this eliminates about 3/4 of parking spaces so there goes a lot of the advantages of this thing. That 560Wh/day is about 8km per day at their ~15 km/kWh rate. That's peak sun months. In the winter you will have to use on-street EV charging for this thing which will get kind of annoying with a small battery and the high draw of the heater. It's a shame, because I think there's a lot of people who would be willing to look past the safety, the comfort or other parts of this if it was practical for the kind of short trips people would use it for, but it seems to be _just_ barely suboptimal. For the price you can buy a much more comfortable used car that just works, goes where you need it, heats and cools you, and if you're truly using it so little will cost very little in gas. I could see it working in a year-round mild climate with good sun but that doesn't describe a ton of US cities. Eventually, though, the cost of all of this will fall, batteries and solar will improve, and we'll get there... but today? I don't quite see these things taking off. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

23 points by neom 3y ago

tahoeskibum 3y ago

Basically a golf cart that with a max speed of 28 mph. Perfect for golf club retirees, but not the 99% of US consumers.

happytiger 3y ago
Why is the being downvoted? This is basically what it is. You can put lipstick on it but it’s basically a golf cart. Golf carts and that whole style of vehicle is a valid alternative for cities. I still prefer bikes but I would use a golf cart based transport network if it was safe and I didn’t have to share the road with gigantic 8000 lb suvs driven by people who keep missing their anger management appointments. The insta post this submission is based on from Elektrek.co even asks the question of whether this is just a golf cart or something actually new and exciting.
- Someone 3y ago
  > Why is the being downvoted? I would think because of “but not the 99% of US consumers”. Vehicles such as this one can be used for a significant fraction of trips that currently are done with heavy cars. Yes, US consumers will have to change, but IMO, and I think I’m far from alone in that, that’s needed to solve the climate crisis, at least in the short term.
  - happytiger 3y ago
    I agree. It’s definitely a great idea. Good point about the 99 percent.
- Rnonymous 3y ago
  These cars drive around Amsterdam quite a bit. They drive on the city road in between other "8000 lb" suvs. Not sure why that matters. I drive my car a 1,500kg car right next to 30,000kg trucks, was never an issue for me. I find this fascination with the size of the car and how it supposed to be a hazard quite amusing. Roads are meant to be shared between different participants. These carts are meant for the city, where everyone's speed limit is 50kph anyway, and they avoid the faster roads. For many, this is all they need.
  - happytiger 3y ago
    I think American drivers is the real concern. There is a certain percentage of people in the US who really have their heads really solidly right up their ass about sharing the road with other users. As someone who regularly bicycles and walks let me tell you just a few of the things I have personally experienced. I’ve been spit on, had drinks thrown from moving vehicles onto me, been yelled by a motorcyclist for him almost hitting me on the shoulder of a road, been fairly regularly threatened with violence for riding my bike (1-2 times a year someone just loses it), been run off the road by a pickup truck while finishing a mountain bike ride (on purpose), had diesel vehicles blow their exhaust at me when passing (common), and actually had a family member get run down two meters off the main road by someone not paying attention and rummaging through grocery bags in their backseat while driving — hit him from behind in the middle of the day. It was incredibly difficult to prosecute that case and the police and district attorney in the area really didn’t want to do anything. I could go on, but the point is that America is not Amsterdam and that “8000 lb” vehicle thing is really more of a reference to car brain idiots and the system that supports them than Gross Vehicle Weights themselves. My entire family still commutes by bike for 70-80 percent of our trips but we are committed to change, and we live in an exceptionally bike oriented city in California. I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Amsterdam and find it one of the most deeply compelling transportation systems in the world. I would be happy to use one of these vehicles, but I worry that the small army of car brain idiots in the Us would make using a vehicle like this just plain dangerous and untenable. All the best.
- DamonHD 3y ago
  Because it's being used as an (unoriginal) term of abuse.
  - happytiger 3y ago
    How is the term abusive?
belorn 3y ago
That means they are competing with electric bikes, especially those 3 wheeled. Naturally there is some benefits in terms of driver comfort, but I suspect the bikes will have a more competitive price.

DamonHD 3y ago

A good counterweight to the seemingly common view that anything smaller than a tank and cannot do 60mph backwards is emasculating. There are too many large, heavy, dangerous, expensive 'cars' on the roads everywhere in the world. I can drive. I do not own a car, and I have set up my life not to need one (nor nee to fill my brain with rubbish about insurance etc), but I would consider one of these. I could even charge it from my roof or off-grid PV.

wufufufu 3y ago
What about safety during accidents? It's better to be driving a heavier car in that case.
- westmeal 3y ago
  It kind of depends on the chassis' structure rather than weight. That being said the only thing more weight accomplishes is the impact is worse for anyone that isn't you.
- DamonHD 3y ago
  It is better for the car occupants to be in a heavier car. IIRC, US road deaths of people outside the car have doubled over the last ~20Y because of the rise of the SUV and its ilk. European safety rules take into account people outside the car in the notion of 'safety'; I don't think that US safety rules do.
bcrl 3y ago
Cars have gotten larger because of changes in recent years to emissions laws: larger cars are permitted to have greater emissions. Naturally, this results in auto manufacturers building larger cars that are easier to make compliant to emissions laws. Force emissions to be lower and the size of vehicles will decrease. I do find it hilarious that my dad's old F150 truck made back in the 1970s is way smaller than modern trucks.
- doubled112 3y ago
  Probably smaller then a new “small” pickup truck, like the recent Ford Ranger?

fellowniusmonk 3y ago

I want this with a truck bed, I'd kill for an electric extended bed 2000 ranger size truck.

freeone3000 3y ago
At 5 horsepower, towing and cargo is going to be fairly limited. I would normally suggest a trailer, but… not for this one.
neom 3y ago
Check out this badboy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpe3biuBIU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irpe3biuBIU
cmpalmer52 3y ago
I had a 1998 Toyota Tacoma with a full length truck bed. I swore I’d drive it until the wheels fell off. Sometime close to 250,000 miles, the u bolts rusted through on the front wheels. One fell off in a drive thru. Got it fixed and the other one checked. They said it was okay, but the other wheel fell off three weeks later. It had a few other problems - AC was leaky, interior plastic was disintegrating, so I sold it for like $1,000 about five years ago and I’ve regretted not just fixing it up and keeping it ever since. I can’t find a similar size/function truck for less than $8-10k. And new “small” trucks aren’t big enough to haul a sheet of plywood. Neither are some big ones.
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Gemcar's GEM e2 looks very similar to this. And as well as a e4 an e6 (for 4 or 6 passengers) they do EL XD is a work utility version that can carry 1415 lbs or tow 1250.
Kon-Peki 3y ago
> I'd kill for an electric extended bed 2000 ranger size truck. You could lease an EV Ranger from Ford back then. Some of them still exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV

stuckkeys 3y ago

My electric scooter goes faster than that and longer range. But I can see it be handy for short distance stuff. The range is a bit of a joke considering they can probably beef that up more. Going to see the reviews how they stack up or how well they play.

iancmceachern 3y ago

Just making a box that holds passengers and meets today's crash test standards at that cost is a feat, let alone the drivetrain too.

owenversteeg 3y ago

I'm sorry, but it's a press release about potential expansion plans, the website is full of typos and they haven't started production yet... I'm skeptical. If anyone's curious about the legal aspect - it's basically a golf cart with a solar panel on top and that's more or less how it would be classified in the US, not as a car but as a NEV like the GEM EVs that are already common across the US for meter maids/security/etc. If you want one badly you can just buy a GEM NEV and slap a solar panel on the roof. The problem with these to me is the cost, this thing claims to cost 9300 euros+21% BTW = 11.2k euros = 11.8k usd for the first 100 built when and if they make them. $12k is about double $6k, sorry, and for $12k you can buy an actual car that has A/C and real heat and goes more than 28mph. If you're using one of these in NYC, for example, it's pretty crappy in the winter and summer (the entire 3 kWh battery will be eaten up by one hour of heating or two of cooling in that small metal greenhouse) and of course the trips where it would be most useful for (between Manhattan and Brooklyn/Queens) it is legally and practically prohibited from. The other problem, of course, is solar panels on a car in a city. I have actually done this (!) and even if you are conscientious about not parking under trees etc you often get days with very little production because of other obstructions - high buildings, other things parked or moved nearby, street signs shading your panels... you often only have peak output for a few hours tops and a few simple things can totally ruin those peak hours. I estimate that this thing has 300W of panel on it - Realistically with that 300Wp and VERY conscientious parking you would average maybe 560 Wh/day in NYC in August with a peak of maybe 1.5 kWh. Keep in mind this eliminates about 3/4 of parking spaces so there goes a lot of the advantages of this thing. That 560Wh/day is about 8km per day at their ~15 km/kWh rate. That's peak sun months. In the winter you will have to use on-street EV charging for this thing which will get kind of annoying with a small battery and the high draw of the heater. It's a shame, because I think there's a lot of people who would be willing to look past the safety, the comfort or other parts of this if it was practical for the kind of short trips people would use it for, but it seems to be _just_ barely suboptimal. For the price you can buy a much more comfortable used car that just works, goes where you need it, heats and cools you, and if you're truly using it so little will cost very little in gas. I could see it working in a year-round mild climate with good sun but that doesn't describe a ton of US cities. Eventually, though, the cost of all of this will fall, batteries and solar will improve, and we'll get there... but today? I don't quite see these things taking off. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.