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This is great advice, although personally I will continue using vim over vscode. If vscode is a sharp kitchen knife then vim is a katana sword. Novice programm

This is great advice, although personally I will continue using vim over vscode. If vscode is a sharp kitchen knife then vim is a katana sword. Novice programmers should probably not start with vim.

Our_Benefactors 3y ago
I did not start regularly using vim until about 6-8 years into my career. The switch came naturally as a result of working more heavily in shell environments. I still do most of my heavy coding in VScode.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  we use nano ! because its keybinds are faster for us : 3 and the legend means we can't forget !
  - doubled112 3y ago
    > and the legend means we can't forget I am not sure what "the legend" is supposed to mean, but at least nano has the keyboard shortcuts displayed at the bottom so you can't forget those. Edit: Ahh yes, the other kind of legend. I was expecting some lore from the old days. I'm going to try some more coffee, but I suspect it won't help. Probably unsafe to drink it laughing at myself anyway.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      > at least nano has the keyboard shortcuts displayed at the bottom so you can't forget those https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_layout#Legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_layout#Legend
    - ghostpepper 3y ago
      That's what a legend is. The term is widely used with maps.
    - Jtsummers 3y ago
      That is "the legend". It's a reference to maps which have (in the printed form) a legend displaying symbols and what they mean. Nano has that same concept in the form of displaying which keyboard shortcuts correspond to which behavior.
joak 3y ago
Dealing with vim plus learning to code is hard. And the reward comes later on. It makes sense to start with vscode...
benrutter 3y ago
I've been using terminal based modal editors for years, but I always recommend VS code for newbies. It has close to no learning required to start using it, and will take you pretty far.
moffkalast 3y ago
Vim is a katana sword alright, one with two blades and no hilt.
- elteto 3y ago
  You must pinch it with your thumb and index fingers. Even so, many have become deadly text slayers this way.
- ghostpepper 3y ago
  If you use it regularly you stop cutting yourself accidentally and generally become as effective as you would be with vscode, but every once in a while you effortless slice through a dozen enemy ninjas all at once and it's those moments that keep you coming back.
IshKebab 3y ago
I still don't really understand what Vim users see in it. They always seem to claim that you can edit faster... and sure you can if you're comparing with Notepad++. But modern editors have multiple cursors and tons of useful editing tools that let you be easily as fast with much less pain.
- ghostpepper 3y ago
  can you go a full 8 hour work day without touching the mouse? edit: can you easily pipe the entire file through grep or awk, or insert the contents of the output of curl or jq?
  - qup 3y ago
    you do that in vim? I do that in terminal (I'm a heavy vim user) vscode subs for vim, not for the CLI
  - BreveDev 3y ago
    > can you go a full 8 hour work day without touching the mouse? What does this have to do with anything? If I felt the need to work this way, I absolutely could set up my Mac + any JetBrains IDE to do it, but to me it is an entirely unnecessary requirement. > can you easily pipe the entire file through grep or awk, or insert the contents of the output of curl or jq? Yes, and probably from within my IDE (if I cared to), which I probably won't do and don't need to because there exists other tools and plugins.
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    > can you go a full 8 hour work day without touching the mouse? No but I don't want to because mice are a great invention that make lots of tasks faster. Why artificially limit yourself by banning a mouse? Do you really browse the web without a mouse? > can you easily pipe the entire file through grep or awk, or insert the contents of the output of curl or jq? Yes? cat file | ... curl ... | pbcopy Anyway those are super rare tasks! Why would I pick an editor based on being able to do things I want to do a couple of times a month at the absolute most?
  - 3y ago
andrewstuart 3y ago
The biggest mistake I made when learning to code was trying to do it with vim. Get an IDE, I suggest JetBrains. I use vim everyday day as I work on Linux systems copying code and writing scripts and things but it should not be your primary development tool, certainly not for novices.
- BD103 3y ago
  Jetbrains has good IDEs, but I've always disagreed with how much they abstract over "running" programs. Run configurations are great for projects where you iterate quickly, but they do not teach newcomers how to use the command line. I've seen this hurt new programmers in practice when they talk about "command line witchcraft," when really it's a very useful tool.
ThrowawayR2 3y ago
> "...vim is a katana sword." Vastly overhyped and overrated by Japanophiles, requires a lot of dedication and learning to use properly, and a hassle to use for day-to-day household tasks? Sounds about right, dohohoho. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding...)
- a1369209993 3y ago
  No, aside from not being literally Japanophiles specifically, that does in fact sound about right, unironically. Likewise Emacs. But VSCode (/JetBrains/etc) is more like a Internet-of-Things version of one of those meat-and-cheese-slicing machines they use in delis: needlessly oversized, optimised for producing stuff in large quantities with no attention to detail, and cannot be used correctly anyway because you can never be sure the next software update won't brick it or cause it up phone home all your information to the malware developer you got it from, because the S in IoT is for security. Notepad, of course, is a rusty butter knife with suspicious-looking stains on it, while ed is a sharp piece of flint (with different suspicious-looking stains). (Does $ echo ' printf("Hello, World!\n");' >> hello.c count as tearing up raw ingredients with your teeth? This metaphore kind of got away from me.)
Shorel 3y ago
I have tried, many times, I even have some plugins installed like git-gutter, etc. It's not for me, thanks. I went back to Sublime Text and will only use vim in case of emergency, and only if I get paid for it.

This is great advice, although personally I will continue using vim over vscode. If vscode is a sharp kitchen knife then vim is a katana sword. Novice programmers should probably not start with vim.

Our_Benefactors 3y ago

I did not start regularly using vim until about 6-8 years into my career. The switch came naturally as a result of working more heavily in shell environments. I still do most of my heavy coding in VScode.

LoganDark 3y ago
we use nano ! because its keybinds are faster for us : 3 and the legend means we can't forget !
- doubled112 3y ago
  > and the legend means we can't forget I am not sure what "the legend" is supposed to mean, but at least nano has the keyboard shortcuts displayed at the bottom so you can't forget those. Edit: Ahh yes, the other kind of legend. I was expecting some lore from the old days. I'm going to try some more coffee, but I suspect it won't help. Probably unsafe to drink it laughing at myself anyway.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    > at least nano has the keyboard shortcuts displayed at the bottom so you can't forget those https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_layout#Legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_layout#Legend
  - ghostpepper 3y ago
    That's what a legend is. The term is widely used with maps.
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    That is "the legend". It's a reference to maps which have (in the printed form) a legend displaying symbols and what they mean. Nano has that same concept in the form of displaying which keyboard shortcuts correspond to which behavior.

joak 3y ago

Dealing with vim plus learning to code is hard. And the reward comes later on. It makes sense to start with vscode...

benrutter 3y ago

I've been using terminal based modal editors for years, but I always recommend VS code for newbies. It has close to no learning required to start using it, and will take you pretty far.

moffkalast 3y ago

Vim is a katana sword alright, one with two blades and no hilt.

elteto 3y ago
You must pinch it with your thumb and index fingers. Even so, many have become deadly text slayers this way.
ghostpepper 3y ago
If you use it regularly you stop cutting yourself accidentally and generally become as effective as you would be with vscode, but every once in a while you effortless slice through a dozen enemy ninjas all at once and it's those moments that keep you coming back.

IshKebab 3y ago

I still don't really understand what Vim users see in it. They always seem to claim that you can edit faster... and sure you can if you're comparing with Notepad++. But modern editors have multiple cursors and tons of useful editing tools that let you be easily as fast with much less pain.

ghostpepper 3y ago
can you go a full 8 hour work day without touching the mouse? edit: can you easily pipe the entire file through grep or awk, or insert the contents of the output of curl or jq?
- qup 3y ago
  you do that in vim? I do that in terminal (I'm a heavy vim user) vscode subs for vim, not for the CLI
- BreveDev 3y ago
  > can you go a full 8 hour work day without touching the mouse? What does this have to do with anything? If I felt the need to work this way, I absolutely could set up my Mac + any JetBrains IDE to do it, but to me it is an entirely unnecessary requirement. > can you easily pipe the entire file through grep or awk, or insert the contents of the output of curl or jq? Yes, and probably from within my IDE (if I cared to), which I probably won't do and don't need to because there exists other tools and plugins.
- IshKebab 3y ago
  > can you go a full 8 hour work day without touching the mouse? No but I don't want to because mice are a great invention that make lots of tasks faster. Why artificially limit yourself by banning a mouse? Do you really browse the web without a mouse? > can you easily pipe the entire file through grep or awk, or insert the contents of the output of curl or jq? Yes? cat file | ... curl ... | pbcopy Anyway those are super rare tasks! Why would I pick an editor based on being able to do things I want to do a couple of times a month at the absolute most?
- 3y ago

andrewstuart 3y ago

The biggest mistake I made when learning to code was trying to do it with vim. Get an IDE, I suggest JetBrains. I use vim everyday day as I work on Linux systems copying code and writing scripts and things but it should not be your primary development tool, certainly not for novices.

BD103 3y ago
Jetbrains has good IDEs, but I've always disagreed with how much they abstract over "running" programs. Run configurations are great for projects where you iterate quickly, but they do not teach newcomers how to use the command line. I've seen this hurt new programmers in practice when they talk about "command line witchcraft," when really it's a very useful tool.

ThrowawayR2 3y ago

> "...vim is a katana sword." Vastly overhyped and overrated by Japanophiles, requires a lot of dedication and learning to use properly, and a hassle to use for day-to-day household tasks? Sounds about right, dohohoho. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding...)

a1369209993 3y ago
No, aside from not being literally Japanophiles specifically, that does in fact sound about right, unironically. Likewise Emacs. But VSCode (/JetBrains/etc) is more like a Internet-of-Things version of one of those meat-and-cheese-slicing machines they use in delis: needlessly oversized, optimised for producing stuff in large quantities with no attention to detail, and cannot be used correctly anyway because you can never be sure the next software update won't brick it or cause it up phone home all your information to the malware developer you got it from, because the S in IoT is for security. Notepad, of course, is a rusty butter knife with suspicious-looking stains on it, while ed is a sharp piece of flint (with different suspicious-looking stains). (Does $ echo ' printf("Hello, World!\n");' >> hello.c count as tearing up raw ingredients with your teeth? This metaphore kind of got away from me.)

Shorel 3y ago

I have tried, many times, I even have some plugins installed like git-gutter, etc. It's not for me, thanks. I went back to Sublime Text and will only use vim in case of emergency, and only if I get paid for it.