5 ms·

I’ll be the counterpoint and say that all the shit jobs I did were way easier than any tech jobs I’ve had. Working retail was boring but it was a joke in terms

I’ll be the counterpoint and say that all the shit jobs I did were way easier than any tech jobs I’ve had. Working retail was boring but it was a joke in terms of stress or care. Working doing help desk IT work was similar. Same for other odd jobs I picked up. Then I joined startups, big tech, etc. all in SV and the stress is insanely high compared to anything else. The hours suck even when you’re an aggressive guy like I am about WLB - because I still have to spend hundreds of hours preparing for interviews every year. It’s mandatory to keep your compensation high and to avoid the new toxic boss you just got. I left a $1m+/yr job because the stress was too much. Experiences with tech is a wide gamut but my experience is one of it being a shit show. I have friends who get paid well and have good hours and a great work environment but I’ve never been in that side of being happy at my jobs. I keep joining shitty employers/teams - somewhat out of bad luck tbh.

monknomo 3y ago
I'm curious - how do you choose a team or a job? I wonder if there is something you're looking for that correlates with stress, or if you're just unlucky
- bradlys 3y ago
  There's very little choice involved. I interview with an assload of companies and go with whoever pays the most and/or whatever opportunity seems best for career growth. Genuinely, I am rather unlucky. I've talked to many peers and even for people who have interviewed for the same job as I had - I constantly go through a much more rigorous process than others. I had to interview with directors, principle engineers, follow up interviews, etc. in order to get my last job when all my peers just did a typical onsite (2 coding, 1 behavior, 1 system design) for the same role whereas I did that in addition to all this other stuff. Same job and role - no downleveling or anything.
hanslovsky 3y ago
I have never had issues with terrible WLB, but I have also never sought out FAANG in SV (and never have been anywhere $1m+). The closest I've been was Biotech. I am not sure that I would trade my WLB for a much more stressful job that pays 2-3x what I make now. It could mean that my spouse "retire" from work and take care of the home and kids, while still maintaining the ability of hiring external help. In that case, the increase in work stress may be compensated by reduced stress of household management
- bradlys 3y ago
  I wish I could take lower income jobs. Sadly, I cannot. The majority of single women in SV expect a minimum of $500k/yr income (if you intend to marry and have kids) regardless of what they earn. Similar woes now that I live in NYC. They all want the $3m house, private school, and the full-time nanny. If you get lucky - maybe you find one who will compromise for a $2m house but she'll give up her job. I hate this dating market tbh.
  - ApolloRising 3y ago
    That's not even remotely true. Not sure where you are dating but there are tons of quality women out there not like that.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    >The majority of single women in SV expect a minimum of $500k/yr income (if you intend to marry and have kids) regardless of what they earn. Did you really fall for that horrible tiktok "trend"? rerfame it this way: say you have a 500k income and 6 months of savings (so, 250k dollars that is easily accessible. even in some stupidly expensive 4K/month apartment with 4k expenses in everything else, we're talking 2.5 years of living expenses). How much would it cost you to make it your full time job to work out, and figure out how to make yourself more physically appealing? I include changes in diet in that 4k "other living expenses" (even a wasteful $100/day of meals is $3k in expenses. may as well invest in something like Factor or HelloFresh). You don't even have to quit your job, but it sounds like it's the kind of job that drains you dry. So let's just use that savings on yourself while you still have "you" left. enroll in a bootcamp, make it your full time mission to go out everyday and move around, find a good tailor to get some good semi-formal and formal clothes for you, find some new non-tech interests that let you tell more casual stories, maybe even invest in a life coach and figure out what you are(n't) doing that is(n't) helping. Someone with that income has the money to do all of this very comfortably. There are way too many "studs" making ends meet on under 70k in high CoL areas to make me feel like someone making 500k can't do anything else to attract a mate. If it's that important, make use of that money you earned through sweat and tears and better yourself. I don't even think you need to change this much (if you're more into nerdy stuff, just find some good tabletop meetups or comic book clubs. You're in NYC you probably have any kind of esoteric social gathering I can name), but clearly there are some deep seeded mindsets or perceptions to correct if this is what you really think. I'm not going to tell you to accept your body because I don't know you. But if you don't accept it, change it.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
I think it'll vary not just on individual prowess and interest, but in what kind of ways you want to grow. Bartending never "changes" but the people do. Even if every interaction is unique you learn a fundamental dozen approaches and your career is spent optimizing to identify what approach to use on which person. There will be a point where you get very comfortable and into the groove if you enjoy that line of work. And honestly tech isn't that different. Except you will never get a groove if you move every few years and the stack and tribal knowledge never builds. It's like it a bartender changed towns every year, with each demographic widly different from the last. some skills transfer but you realize others are unique to this demographic and older skills may even be a negative. But if you're someone who always wants to be working on a new problem, this is a better deal. You'll never get "bored" so to speak. >It’s mandatory to keep your compensation high and to avoid the new toxic boss you just got. I feel these may go more hand in hand than we realize.
red-iron-pine 3y ago
> I left a $1m+/yr job because the stress was too much. Experiences with tech is a wide gamut but my experience is one of it being a shit show. I have friends who get paid well and have good hours and a great work environment but I’ve never been in that side of being happy at my jobs. I keep joining shitty employers/teams - somewhat out of bad luck tbh. You just made my point for me killer. The median salary in the US is like $57k/yr, and, obviously, for a lot of people it's much less The federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr, which is $15k annually, and people will be often working multiple shit jobs in the middle of nowhere just to make rent and not have the power/heat/water turned off. Meanwhile this guy is getting $1M and boohoo sooooo stressful. Guess I'll have to go home to my fancy SV apartment and enjoy all of these amenities along with the pay bennies; not living in shit-tier parts of Indiana or NM, or MI, etc. People would literally kill for half of that salary; often get killed for far less. The average bank robbery is like $6k. > Same for other odd jobs I picked up. odd jobs. one offs. this wasn't your life for the next 20 years, and you had options, clearly. how many kids did you have to feed on that money?
- InSteady 3y ago
  This is getting rhetorically close to "there are children starving in Africa so your problems in life are not valid."

monknomo 3y ago

I'm curious - how do you choose a team or a job? I wonder if there is something you're looking for that correlates with stress, or if you're just unlucky

bradlys 3y ago
There's very little choice involved. I interview with an assload of companies and go with whoever pays the most and/or whatever opportunity seems best for career growth. Genuinely, I am rather unlucky. I've talked to many peers and even for people who have interviewed for the same job as I had - I constantly go through a much more rigorous process than others. I had to interview with directors, principle engineers, follow up interviews, etc. in order to get my last job when all my peers just did a typical onsite (2 coding, 1 behavior, 1 system design) for the same role whereas I did that in addition to all this other stuff. Same job and role - no downleveling or anything.

hanslovsky 3y ago

I have never had issues with terrible WLB, but I have also never sought out FAANG in SV (and never have been anywhere $1m+). The closest I've been was Biotech. I am not sure that I would trade my WLB for a much more stressful job that pays 2-3x what I make now. It could mean that my spouse "retire" from work and take care of the home and kids, while still maintaining the ability of hiring external help. In that case, the increase in work stress may be compensated by reduced stress of household management

bradlys 3y ago
I wish I could take lower income jobs. Sadly, I cannot. The majority of single women in SV expect a minimum of $500k/yr income (if you intend to marry and have kids) regardless of what they earn. Similar woes now that I live in NYC. They all want the $3m house, private school, and the full-time nanny. If you get lucky - maybe you find one who will compromise for a $2m house but she'll give up her job. I hate this dating market tbh.
- ApolloRising 3y ago
  That's not even remotely true. Not sure where you are dating but there are tons of quality women out there not like that.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  >The majority of single women in SV expect a minimum of $500k/yr income (if you intend to marry and have kids) regardless of what they earn. Did you really fall for that horrible tiktok "trend"? rerfame it this way: say you have a 500k income and 6 months of savings (so, 250k dollars that is easily accessible. even in some stupidly expensive 4K/month apartment with 4k expenses in everything else, we're talking 2.5 years of living expenses). How much would it cost you to make it your full time job to work out, and figure out how to make yourself more physically appealing? I include changes in diet in that 4k "other living expenses" (even a wasteful $100/day of meals is $3k in expenses. may as well invest in something like Factor or HelloFresh). You don't even have to quit your job, but it sounds like it's the kind of job that drains you dry. So let's just use that savings on yourself while you still have "you" left. enroll in a bootcamp, make it your full time mission to go out everyday and move around, find a good tailor to get some good semi-formal and formal clothes for you, find some new non-tech interests that let you tell more casual stories, maybe even invest in a life coach and figure out what you are(n't) doing that is(n't) helping. Someone with that income has the money to do all of this very comfortably. There are way too many "studs" making ends meet on under 70k in high CoL areas to make me feel like someone making 500k can't do anything else to attract a mate. If it's that important, make use of that money you earned through sweat and tears and better yourself. I don't even think you need to change this much (if you're more into nerdy stuff, just find some good tabletop meetups or comic book clubs. You're in NYC you probably have any kind of esoteric social gathering I can name), but clearly there are some deep seeded mindsets or perceptions to correct if this is what you really think. I'm not going to tell you to accept your body because I don't know you. But if you don't accept it, change it.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

I think it'll vary not just on individual prowess and interest, but in what kind of ways you want to grow. Bartending never "changes" but the people do. Even if every interaction is unique you learn a fundamental dozen approaches and your career is spent optimizing to identify what approach to use on which person. There will be a point where you get very comfortable and into the groove if you enjoy that line of work. And honestly tech isn't that different. Except you will never get a groove if you move every few years and the stack and tribal knowledge never builds. It's like it a bartender changed towns every year, with each demographic widly different from the last. some skills transfer but you realize others are unique to this demographic and older skills may even be a negative. But if you're someone who always wants to be working on a new problem, this is a better deal. You'll never get "bored" so to speak. >It’s mandatory to keep your compensation high and to avoid the new toxic boss you just got. I feel these may go more hand in hand than we realize.

red-iron-pine 3y ago

> I left a $1m+/yr job because the stress was too much. Experiences with tech is a wide gamut but my experience is one of it being a shit show. I have friends who get paid well and have good hours and a great work environment but I’ve never been in that side of being happy at my jobs. I keep joining shitty employers/teams - somewhat out of bad luck tbh. You just made my point for me killer. The median salary in the US is like $57k/yr, and, obviously, for a lot of people it's much less The federal minimum wage is 7.25/hr, which is $15k annually, and people will be often working multiple shit jobs in the middle of nowhere just to make rent and not have the power/heat/water turned off. Meanwhile this guy is getting $1M and boohoo sooooo stressful. Guess I'll have to go home to my fancy SV apartment and enjoy all of these amenities along with the pay bennies; not living in shit-tier parts of Indiana or NM, or MI, etc. People would literally kill for half of that salary; often get killed for far less. The average bank robbery is like $6k. > Same for other odd jobs I picked up. odd jobs. one offs. this wasn't your life for the next 20 years, and you had options, clearly. how many kids did you have to feed on that money?

InSteady 3y ago
This is getting rhetorically close to "there are children starving in Africa so your problems in life are not valid."