3 ms·

I'm more surprised Sudafed was shown as an OTC. Isn't that one of the ingredients in meth? Not really the subject of the article but it struck me as odd.

by junon 3y ago

barney54 3y ago
Not real Sudafed. Real Sudafed isn’t OTC because it is pseudoephedrine—in fact that’s where Sudafed got its name.
- strifey 3y ago
  Real sudafed is OTC, you just need to ask for it at the counter. No prescription is required. They just don't have it on shelves, because they require you to show your ID when purchasing it. I'm assuming this is so they can track how much a person is buying to track people who are using it for illicit purposes.
  - theultdev 3y ago
    Behind the counter (BTC) is the specific term for these OTC medicines.
  - hcurtiss 3y ago
    Oregon requires a prescription.
    - strifey 3y ago
      Oof, remind me not to move there. I wouldn't survive an allergy season. Though to be fair, I imagine most GPs would write a prescription pretty quick.
      - jjulius 3y ago
        You can move here - prescriptions have not been required since January 1, 2022.
      - theultdev 3y ago
        You can just buy hard drugs there instead, it's Oregon! But you will have to go to a shady place since they only decriminalized them... If it seems stupid it's because it is.
  - jibolash 3y ago
    This category of drugs are referred to as Behind the Counter, https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requirements-sale-and-purchase-drug-products-containing-pseudoephedrine-ephedrine-and https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requi...
    - strifey 3y ago
      Interesting, today I learned it had a more specific term. Still, saying something "isn't OTC" implies you need a prescription to most people. At least in my experience.
- rubyfan 3y ago
  Wow, I have legit never made that connection.
pbj1968 3y ago
[flagged]
- dylan604 3y ago
  as if it's only a problem in Missouri. what ever gripe you have is totally useless here.
  - pbj1968 3y ago
    Missouri was the meth capital of the United States and pioneered the laws restricting sales. Meth labs were never run off buying 2-3 boxes at a time - before the restrictions you could buy the pills by the thousands from compounding pharmacies. As much as I “appreciate” your downvote, my quality of life has been directly impacted by the sales restrictions. The only way I can buy enough to maintain the dose I need involves straw man purchases far more expensive than they used to be. Accordingly, I moved on to other medications which are not as effective.
delecti 3y ago
Sudafed (edit: also) makes (or at least made) products with phenylephrine, the useless drug in question. Those products don't contain pseudoephedrine, which can indeed be used as a precursor to making meth. Edit: I did not say that Sudafed did not also make products containing pseudoephedrine. They do, obviously, it's where their name comes from. They just also make products with useless phenylephrine.
- aug_aug 3y ago
  Actually, Sudafed continues(d?) to make both, you just have to ask for the one with pseudoephedrine which is usually locked behind the counter. Not a meth chef here, but do I have allergies and get migraines, the only thing that seems to help is pseudoephedrine. When they introduced this crap however long ago I could immediately tell it did nothing compared to the 'original' version. Not surprised at all by this revelation/confirmation years later.
- wging 3y ago
  Sudafed also makes pseudoephedrine HCl, which works. That’s why their name is a contraction of ‘pseudoephedrine’.
a2tech 3y ago
You can still get it over the counter, but you have to ask at the counter for it
timr 3y ago
> Isn't that one of the ingredients in meth? Not an ingredient -- a precursor. Methamphetamine, pseudoephedrine and and phenylephrine are very closely related: https://cen.acs.org/content/dam/cen/83/13/8313govpol1imgs.gif https://cen.acs.org/content/dam/cen/83/13/8313govpol1imgs.gi... To convert pseudoephedrine to meth you have to remove a hydroxyl (-OH) group in a way that leaves the resulting molecule in a specific isomer. Doing this at high yield is challenging, but it turns out that if you're willing to live with lots of horrible impurities, you can do it in a cola bottle. PE has the same structure as pseudoephedrine, but in a different isomer, so it cannot be converted with the simple approaches. Unfortunately, PE is also useless for decongestion, because -- surprise! -- the isomer matters a lot for effectiveness.
- culi 3y ago
  A fun fact is that both Ephedrine and PE are naturally derived from the Ephedra plant. During WW1 and WW2 there was a lot of research into how we can make these chemicals more potent and that's basically how we ended up with meth. Many soldiers came home after WW2 still addicted to meth and for a few years you could actually buy meth at your local drugstore as an OTC.
  - ksherlock 3y ago
    Yeah, Benzedrine inhaler tubes ("bennies") were banned in 1965.
striking 3y ago
There's the Sudafed on the shelves, made with phenylephrine, and the Sudafed behind the counter, made with pseudoephedrine. (Technically both OTC.) The Sudafed behind the counter actually works (really really well), but due to what you've described, you need to present ID and affirm that you'll abide by certain federal laws. Oh, and there's a low hard limit on how much you can buy at a time, which is fine if it's just you in your household but not so fine if absurd levels of congestion run in the family and you all live together.
CaliforniaKarl 3y ago
That picture shows "Sudafed PE". The product "Sudafed", which contains Pseudoephedrine, still exists. As per https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/over-counter-medicines https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/over-counter-med..., "Over-the-counter (OTC) medicines are those that can be sold directly to people without a prescription.". Sudafed—the real Sudafed—is still OTC, by that definition.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

I'm more surprised Sudafed was shown as an OTC. Isn't that one of the ingredients in meth? Not really the subject of the article but it struck me as odd.

by junon 3y ago

I'm more surprised Sudafed was shown as an OTC. Isn't that one of the ingredients in meth? Not really the subject of the article but it struck me as odd.

barney54 3y ago

Not real Sudafed. Real Sudafed isn’t OTC because it is pseudoephedrine—in fact that’s where Sudafed got its name.

strifey 3y ago
Real sudafed is OTC, you just need to ask for it at the counter. No prescription is required. They just don't have it on shelves, because they require you to show your ID when purchasing it. I'm assuming this is so they can track how much a person is buying to track people who are using it for illicit purposes.
- theultdev 3y ago
  Behind the counter (BTC) is the specific term for these OTC medicines.
- hcurtiss 3y ago
  Oregon requires a prescription.
  - strifey 3y ago
    Oof, remind me not to move there. I wouldn't survive an allergy season. Though to be fair, I imagine most GPs would write a prescription pretty quick.
    - jjulius 3y ago
      You can move here - prescriptions have not been required since January 1, 2022.
    - theultdev 3y ago
      You can just buy hard drugs there instead, it's Oregon! But you will have to go to a shady place since they only decriminalized them... If it seems stupid it's because it is.
- jibolash 3y ago
  This category of drugs are referred to as Behind the Counter, https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requirements-sale-and-purchase-drug-products-containing-pseudoephedrine-ephedrine-and https://www.fda.gov/drugs/information-drug-class/legal-requi...
  - strifey 3y ago
    Interesting, today I learned it had a more specific term. Still, saying something "isn't OTC" implies you need a prescription to most people. At least in my experience.
rubyfan 3y ago
Wow, I have legit never made that connection.

pbj1968 3y ago

[flagged]

dylan604 3y ago
as if it's only a problem in Missouri. what ever gripe you have is totally useless here.
- pbj1968 3y ago
  Missouri was the meth capital of the United States and pioneered the laws restricting sales. Meth labs were never run off buying 2-3 boxes at a time - before the restrictions you could buy the pills by the thousands from compounding pharmacies. As much as I “appreciate” your downvote, my quality of life has been directly impacted by the sales restrictions. The only way I can buy enough to maintain the dose I need involves straw man purchases far more expensive than they used to be. Accordingly, I moved on to other medications which are not as effective.

delecti 3y ago

Sudafed (edit: also) makes (or at least made) products with phenylephrine, the useless drug in question. Those products don't contain pseudoephedrine, which can indeed be used as a precursor to making meth. Edit: I did not say that Sudafed did not also make products containing pseudoephedrine. They do, obviously, it's where their name comes from. They just also make products with useless phenylephrine.

aug_aug 3y ago
Actually, Sudafed continues(d?) to make both, you just have to ask for the one with pseudoephedrine which is usually locked behind the counter. Not a meth chef here, but do I have allergies and get migraines, the only thing that seems to help is pseudoephedrine. When they introduced this crap however long ago I could immediately tell it did nothing compared to the 'original' version. Not surprised at all by this revelation/confirmation years later.
wging 3y ago
Sudafed also makes pseudoephedrine HCl, which works. That’s why their name is a contraction of ‘pseudoephedrine’.

a2tech 3y ago

You can still get it over the counter, but you have to ask at the counter for it

timr 3y ago

> Isn't that one of the ingredients in meth? Not an ingredient -- a precursor. Methamphetamine, pseudoephedrine and and phenylephrine are very closely related: https://cen.acs.org/content/dam/cen/83/13/8313govpol1imgs.gif https://cen.acs.org/content/dam/cen/83/13/8313govpol1imgs.gi... To convert pseudoephedrine to meth you have to remove a hydroxyl (-OH) group in a way that leaves the resulting molecule in a specific isomer. Doing this at high yield is challenging, but it turns out that if you're willing to live with lots of horrible impurities, you can do it in a cola bottle. PE has the same structure as pseudoephedrine, but in a different isomer, so it cannot be converted with the simple approaches. Unfortunately, PE is also useless for decongestion, because -- surprise! -- the isomer matters a lot for effectiveness.

culi 3y ago
A fun fact is that both Ephedrine and PE are naturally derived from the Ephedra plant. During WW1 and WW2 there was a lot of research into how we can make these chemicals more potent and that's basically how we ended up with meth. Many soldiers came home after WW2 still addicted to meth and for a few years you could actually buy meth at your local drugstore as an OTC.
- ksherlock 3y ago
  Yeah, Benzedrine inhaler tubes ("bennies") were banned in 1965.

striking 3y ago

There's the Sudafed on the shelves, made with phenylephrine, and the Sudafed behind the counter, made with pseudoephedrine. (Technically both OTC.) The Sudafed behind the counter actually works (really really well), but due to what you've described, you need to present ID and affirm that you'll abide by certain federal laws. Oh, and there's a low hard limit on how much you can buy at a time, which is fine if it's just you in your household but not so fine if absurd levels of congestion run in the family and you all live together.

CaliforniaKarl 3y ago

That picture shows "Sudafed PE". The product "Sudafed", which contains Pseudoephedrine, still exists. As per https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/over-counter-medicines https://nida.nih.gov/publications/drugfacts/over-counter-med..., "Over-the-counter (OTC) medicines are those that can be sold directly to people without a prescription.". Sudafed—the real Sudafed—is still OTC, by that definition.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]