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"Mail" on Windows notified me that starting with 2024, Outlook will replace it as the new default Mail client on Windows. It also asked me if I want to switch n

"Mail" on Windows notified me that starting with 2024, Outlook will replace it as the new default Mail client on Windows. It also asked me if I want to switch now. I decided to try it out and during setup of the new free Outlook I got asked how I want to see my ads: As a banner above the mail window or in my inbox. This took my by surprise since it essentially means, that the default mail client for Windows now will start serving ads. Tweet for reference: https://twitter.com/Farbklex91/status/1716847430510023000 https://twitter.com/Farbklex91/status/1716847430510023000

eschneider 3y ago
Note to self: the market for 3rd party windows mail clients is going to grow next year.
- roywashere 3y ago
  I have the idea that most people use browser-based email clients anyway?
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    Why? Then you have to open your browser. I use Evolution.
    - hhh 3y ago
      I don't think I am saying something controversial when I say that the majority of people have a browser open at almost all times...
      - bravetraveler 3y ago
        Indeed, browsers are open a lot. It's nice to consolidate your needs to just tabs in there. I use Slack and plenty of other things that way too. I will say, however, a proper email client is nice for archival purposes. (note: not the person you're replying to, just a random passerby)
      - johannes1234321 3y ago
        Considering changes in communication, where mail is less relevant compared to discord, slack, WhatsApp, ... I guess many people can meanwhile live quite some time without looking at a mail app at all. While browser is needed regularly.
    - saghm 3y ago
      > Why? Then you have to open your browser. To me, the question isn't "why use my browser", it's "why use something else when I already have a browser and it's always open"?
      - Karellen 3y ago
        For me, the answer is "because native mail clients are so much snappier and responsive". As well as being able to choose my client based on the interface I prefer, rather than whatever UI the webmail provider decides to give me. And my mail client is also always open. And it uses less memory than a typical browser tab.
        zgk7iqea 3y ago
        The reality I think is, the average user probably doesn't care about snappyness as long as it is not too bothersome. The path of least resistance is opening the webmail (no setup required).
      - HumblyTossed 3y ago
        Fair. I just don't always have a browser open. I don't need it when I'm coding and such. If I need to look something up I'll make a note and come back to it. Breaks my flow to just stop and look something up when I can just stub something out and fix it proper later.
    - reustle 3y ago
      Many folks, including myself, live (nearly) entirely within the browser. Pinned tabs, multiple windows, as big improvements in JS / wasm make this pretty smooth.
  - baz00 3y ago
    New Outlook is a browser based email client strangely. It runs roughly the same code on the desktop as on outlook.com. It's Edge underneath.
    - Banditoz 3y ago
      Which sucks, because the new Outlook is less performant than the native one.
  - danpla 3y ago
    > I have the idea that most people use browser-based email clients anyway? Indeed, but it's not an option if you have more than one email account on the same service.
    - coremoff 3y ago
      firefox containers can help there
- firebaze 3y ago
  Just switch to Linux already. It's really there. Some compromises required, sure, but they are already far and between. Keep it for gaming if you need. But give Proton a try first. My almost 75yo dad switched recently. I swear I'm telling the truth: his main complaint was, after buying a new printer, he couldn't find the matching drivers. I told him just to print, and that was that.
  - Farbklex 3y ago
    I only use Windows on my gaming desktop and would go Linux first next time I upgrade. Only a few games I play still need Windows and I could still use dual boot for them.
  - runjake 3y ago
    > Just switch to Linux already. I did this. Again. After running Linux as my main desktop OS from about 1992 - 1999, and some years since then. > It's really there. Some compromises required, sure, but they are already far and between. I'm not sure about that, and borderline disagree. There are a lot of compromises: - The Linux desktop is far flakier and far less elegant than Windows and especially macOS. KDE's a little less flakey than GNOME, I suppose. - A lot of the apps you love don't exist on Linux. - The Linux replacements for the apps you love are way less functional. - Keyboard shortcuts are chaotic unless you spend a lot of time deep diving on how to configure them coherently across applications. - Odd behaviors with snap/flatpak apps, but those will get worked out with time. Pluses: - The underlying Linux OS is rock stable with compatible hardware. - You can customize your desktop pretty much infinitely, if that's your thing. - Everything is free. - Logging is, compared to macOS and Windows, excellent. - If you're a developer, everything is more compatible on Linux. Anyways, after a year, I went crawling back to my Mac. I still have a Linux desktop SSD in the PC, ready to go, but I rarely pop in anymore. That said, if you live the terminals plus browser lifestyle, you won't miss much switching to Linux desktop. Edit: for context, I used UNIX and Linux way before I ever used Windows or DOS. I have, in the past, done deep dives on Windows, Windows kernel, Windows and .net programming, etc. I just prefer *NIX.
    - firebaze 3y ago
saghm 3y ago
> I decided to try it out and during setup of the new free Outlook I got asked how I want to see my ads: As a banner above the mail window or in my inbox It's absurd of them to even imply that anyone wants to see the ads at all. They clearly know that given the option, pretty much everyone would answer the question "where do you want to see your ads in your mail client" with "nowhere". There are certainly products where I grudgingly recognize that ads are the only way they're able to provide the product at all, but I can't see how they possibly could claim that here when they're literally going out of their way to move people towards using it.
Aardwolf 3y ago
I've been out of the loop due to using Linux the last 20 years, but back when I was using Windows XP, the default mail client was also called Outlook (well, Outlook Express). So apparently I missed some time period where it was called "Mail" instead. But now it'll be Outlook again. Full circle!
- pmontra 3y ago
  Full circle twice: there was a Microsoft Mail well before Microsoft Outlook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail

eschneider 3y ago

Note to self: the market for 3rd party windows mail clients is going to grow next year.

roywashere 3y ago
I have the idea that most people use browser-based email clients anyway?
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  Why? Then you have to open your browser. I use Evolution.
  - hhh 3y ago
    I don't think I am saying something controversial when I say that the majority of people have a browser open at almost all times...
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      Indeed, browsers are open a lot. It's nice to consolidate your needs to just tabs in there. I use Slack and plenty of other things that way too. I will say, however, a proper email client is nice for archival purposes. (note: not the person you're replying to, just a random passerby)
    - johannes1234321 3y ago
      Considering changes in communication, where mail is less relevant compared to discord, slack, WhatsApp, ... I guess many people can meanwhile live quite some time without looking at a mail app at all. While browser is needed regularly.
  - saghm 3y ago
    > Why? Then you have to open your browser. To me, the question isn't "why use my browser", it's "why use something else when I already have a browser and it's always open"?
    - Karellen 3y ago
      For me, the answer is "because native mail clients are so much snappier and responsive". As well as being able to choose my client based on the interface I prefer, rather than whatever UI the webmail provider decides to give me. And my mail client is also always open. And it uses less memory than a typical browser tab.
      - zgk7iqea 3y ago
        The reality I think is, the average user probably doesn't care about snappyness as long as it is not too bothersome. The path of least resistance is opening the webmail (no setup required).
    - HumblyTossed 3y ago
      Fair. I just don't always have a browser open. I don't need it when I'm coding and such. If I need to look something up I'll make a note and come back to it. Breaks my flow to just stop and look something up when I can just stub something out and fix it proper later.
  - reustle 3y ago
    Many folks, including myself, live (nearly) entirely within the browser. Pinned tabs, multiple windows, as big improvements in JS / wasm make this pretty smooth.
- baz00 3y ago
  New Outlook is a browser based email client strangely. It runs roughly the same code on the desktop as on outlook.com. It's Edge underneath.
  - Banditoz 3y ago
    Which sucks, because the new Outlook is less performant than the native one.
- danpla 3y ago
  > I have the idea that most people use browser-based email clients anyway? Indeed, but it's not an option if you have more than one email account on the same service.
  - coremoff 3y ago
    firefox containers can help there
firebaze 3y ago
Just switch to Linux already. It's really there. Some compromises required, sure, but they are already far and between. Keep it for gaming if you need. But give Proton a try first. My almost 75yo dad switched recently. I swear I'm telling the truth: his main complaint was, after buying a new printer, he couldn't find the matching drivers. I told him just to print, and that was that.
- Farbklex 3y ago
  I only use Windows on my gaming desktop and would go Linux first next time I upgrade. Only a few games I play still need Windows and I could still use dual boot for them.
- runjake 3y ago
  > Just switch to Linux already. I did this. Again. After running Linux as my main desktop OS from about 1992 - 1999, and some years since then. > It's really there. Some compromises required, sure, but they are already far and between. I'm not sure about that, and borderline disagree. There are a lot of compromises: - The Linux desktop is far flakier and far less elegant than Windows and especially macOS. KDE's a little less flakey than GNOME, I suppose. - A lot of the apps you love don't exist on Linux. - The Linux replacements for the apps you love are way less functional. - Keyboard shortcuts are chaotic unless you spend a lot of time deep diving on how to configure them coherently across applications. - Odd behaviors with snap/flatpak apps, but those will get worked out with time. Pluses: - The underlying Linux OS is rock stable with compatible hardware. - You can customize your desktop pretty much infinitely, if that's your thing. - Everything is free. - Logging is, compared to macOS and Windows, excellent. - If you're a developer, everything is more compatible on Linux. Anyways, after a year, I went crawling back to my Mac. I still have a Linux desktop SSD in the PC, ready to go, but I rarely pop in anymore. That said, if you live the terminals plus browser lifestyle, you won't miss much switching to Linux desktop. Edit: for context, I used UNIX and Linux way before I ever used Windows or DOS. I have, in the past, done deep dives on Windows, Windows kernel, Windows and .net programming, etc. I just prefer *NIX.
  - firebaze 3y ago

saghm 3y ago

> I decided to try it out and during setup of the new free Outlook I got asked how I want to see my ads: As a banner above the mail window or in my inbox It's absurd of them to even imply that anyone wants to see the ads at all. They clearly know that given the option, pretty much everyone would answer the question "where do you want to see your ads in your mail client" with "nowhere". There are certainly products where I grudgingly recognize that ads are the only way they're able to provide the product at all, but I can't see how they possibly could claim that here when they're literally going out of their way to move people towards using it.

Aardwolf 3y ago

I've been out of the loop due to using Linux the last 20 years, but back when I was using Windows XP, the default mail client was also called Outlook (well, Outlook Express). So apparently I missed some time period where it was called "Mail" instead. But now it'll be Outlook again. Full circle!

pmontra 3y ago
Full circle twice: there was a Microsoft Mail well before Microsoft Outlook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Mail