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> "The AV braked aggressively before impact and because it detected a collision, it attempted to pull over to avoid further safety issues," Cruise added. "When

by yegle 3y ago

> "The AV braked aggressively before impact and because it detected a collision, it attempted to pull over to avoid further safety issues," Cruise added. "When the AV tried to pull over, it continued before coming to a final stop, pulling the pedestrian forward. Our thoughts continue to be with the victim as we hope for a rapid and complete recovery." This looks like Cruise's fault, dragging a pedestrian while pulling over for "safety"?

_ea1k 3y ago
Yes, and it sounds like a fairly fundamental flaw. Does the car have sensors that can determine pulling over is the wrong thing to do in this situation? In general, getting out of the way is the right course of action, but this clearly shows that there are exceptions. I'm not sure that the vehicles are currently equipped for differentiating to even be possible.
- WesternWind 3y ago
  Can the car detect screams of pain? Because I as a driver can.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    It should be able to, but what if the person was unconscious? As a human, we'd detect this in other ways. I'd expect the car to use cameras and sensors.
- rob74 3y ago
  In case of a serious accident, especially one where a person has come to harm, not blocking traffic shouldn't be the main concern anymore IMHO...
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Agreed, and regardless of state after impact, it should have been able to determine that someone had been hurt by the collision. That might be the fix in this case, just hard stop for all cases of pedestrian impact.
  - fudged71 3y ago
    A human driver (and owner of the vehicle) would get out to assess the damage. So in the absence… Remain where you are until a trained professional gives you directions. Fire/police/ambulance should have some way to direct the vehicle.
mariusmg 3y ago
>This looks like Cruise's fault Imagine having to write the code that "detects" if a pedestrain is caught underneath the car
- mumblemumble 3y ago
  It's not clear to me that this is purely a software problem; it might be a "the car doesn't even have the sensors necessary to detect this kind of situation" problem. It could also be a "the software can't anticipate that this would be happening the way a human can because it doesn't have object permanence" problem. That's probably at least part of how a human would do it. But I have a suspicion that we're very, very far away from being able to get computers to do that in any sort of reliable way. So I'm guessing we're probably looking at specialized sensors if we want to handle this kind of situation appropriately. Basically some sort of self-driving car equivalent of a human driver getting out of the car to check and make sure everything's OK.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    I would be surprised if it turns out that those self-driving cars don't have object permanence. Making things move around without a physical model looks like a really nasty infinite bug-breeder.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      For the longest time, at least the visual representation of trains at a level crossing strongly implied challenges around object permanence for Tesla. I will say that I recognize that the visual representation may not be a 1:1 (in fact quite certainly isn't) mapping of the computer's "world view". But it was quite ridiculous and definitely disconcerting seeing a level crossing with a train going through it and seeing the Tesla I was in acting like there was a traffic light that was erratically going red, while dozens of semi trucks flickered in and out of existence across the screen in front of me.
      - marcosdumay 3y ago

by yegle 3y ago

_ea1k 3y ago

Yes, and it sounds like a fairly fundamental flaw. Does the car have sensors that can determine pulling over is the wrong thing to do in this situation? In general, getting out of the way is the right course of action, but this clearly shows that there are exceptions. I'm not sure that the vehicles are currently equipped for differentiating to even be possible.

WesternWind 3y ago
Can the car detect screams of pain? Because I as a driver can.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  It should be able to, but what if the person was unconscious? As a human, we'd detect this in other ways. I'd expect the car to use cameras and sensors.
rob74 3y ago
In case of a serious accident, especially one where a person has come to harm, not blocking traffic shouldn't be the main concern anymore IMHO...
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Agreed, and regardless of state after impact, it should have been able to determine that someone had been hurt by the collision. That might be the fix in this case, just hard stop for all cases of pedestrian impact.
- fudged71 3y ago
  A human driver (and owner of the vehicle) would get out to assess the damage. So in the absence… Remain where you are until a trained professional gives you directions. Fire/police/ambulance should have some way to direct the vehicle.

mariusmg 3y ago

>This looks like Cruise's fault Imagine having to write the code that "detects" if a pedestrain is caught underneath the car

mumblemumble 3y ago
It's not clear to me that this is purely a software problem; it might be a "the car doesn't even have the sensors necessary to detect this kind of situation" problem. It could also be a "the software can't anticipate that this would be happening the way a human can because it doesn't have object permanence" problem. That's probably at least part of how a human would do it. But I have a suspicion that we're very, very far away from being able to get computers to do that in any sort of reliable way. So I'm guessing we're probably looking at specialized sensors if we want to handle this kind of situation appropriately. Basically some sort of self-driving car equivalent of a human driver getting out of the car to check and make sure everything's OK.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  I would be surprised if it turns out that those self-driving cars don't have object permanence. Making things move around without a physical model looks like a really nasty infinite bug-breeder.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    For the longest time, at least the visual representation of trains at a level crossing strongly implied challenges around object permanence for Tesla. I will say that I recognize that the visual representation may not be a 1:1 (in fact quite certainly isn't) mapping of the computer's "world view". But it was quite ridiculous and definitely disconcerting seeing a level crossing with a train going through it and seeing the Tesla I was in acting like there was a traffic light that was erratically going red, while dozens of semi trucks flickered in and out of existence across the screen in front of me.
    - marcosdumay 3y ago