7 ms·

The incident last month where that woman got dragged and pinned by the Cruise vehicle was pretty disconcerting. The initial collision wasn't the fault of the cr

The incident last month where that woman got dragged and pinned by the Cruise vehicle was pretty disconcerting. The initial collision wasn't the fault of the cruise vehicle (another vehicle hit her pushing her into the cruise vehicle and fled the scene), but the cruise vehicle then proceeded to try to "pull over" and just dragged this woman and rolled over her leg. Weird situation but definitely something made much much worse by not having a person in the loop once the incident occurred.

hindsightbias 3y ago
[flagged]
- twisteriffic 3y ago
  ... Stopped?
- dehugger 3y ago
  Stopped the vehicle, instead of continuing to drag them?
  - mgiampapa 3y ago
    That's if they even saw the person was under them. My aunt got dragged by my grandfather as a child for a block and he at one point ran over my grandmother in a parking lot when she fell behind the car... this may say more about my grandfather than anything else, but average encompasses all kinds of drivers.
- parshimers 3y ago
  stop and get out of the car because someone just got flung onto/underneath your car? or perhaps have enough situational awareness to see that someone is about to walk into oncoming traffic?
- mips_avatar 3y ago
  This woman got dragged 20 feet and then the car rolled over her leg and stopped. The fire department had to come and remove the wheel of the car to get it off her leg. I don't know of a single person who would have done that.
  - pj_mukh 3y ago
    Dragged 20 feet after she was pinned under the car, or after being hit by the (human) driver? This part is not clear to me, and DMV never makes it clear either.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      The DMV makes it perfectly clear. > After coming to a complete stop, it then attempted to do a “pullover maneuver while the pedestrian was underneath the vehicle.”
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- Mavvie 3y ago
  I'm not too familiar with the details here, but probably hit the brakes and stop ASAP? If there could be someone under my car I wouldn't keep driving to "pull over safely".
pj_mukh 3y ago
Did Cruise release the video, its not clear to me a human driver would be better (other than some textual descriptions of the event)? The (human) person who actually caused the crash is still at large, and the bay area (SF + Oakland) still continues to one of the municipalities with negligble traffic enforcement [1] and massively dangerous (human) driving behavior [2]. So the city and DMV focussing their efforts on this corner case driving systems seems like dereliction of duty on the City attorney's and DoT's part. [1] https://sfstandard.com/2023/07/01/ask-the-standard-san-francisco-traffic-enforcement/ https://sfstandard.com/2023/07/01/ask-the-standard-san-franc... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzc15BeAaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzc15BeAaE
- mips_avatar 3y ago
  This woman got dragged 20 feet by the car after the collision, and then the car rolled over her leg and left her pinned to the ground until the fire department came and removed the wheel to get her out. The cruise vehicle wasn't at fault for the initial accident, but the subsequent damage it caused was entirely the fault of the autonomous vehicle. A person would have stopped and helped the pedestrian.
  - ironman1478 3y ago
    The person who hit and run the woman in the first place shows this is obviously not true. You think they didn't notice?There was a muni bus who hit a pedestrian a few weeks ago and didn't even notice.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      If the Cruise had hit and run it might have been better than parking on the woman's leg.
      - ironman1478 3y ago
        Except it didn't immediately do that. Cruise released a report today saying that the car actually drove 20 feet and dragged the woman. There is no simple answer as to what to do. It's simply difficult and acting like there are easy answers to this is unproductive and imo not in the spirit of hackernews.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
joe_the_user 3y ago
Aside from the other comments, pulling over when you detect a collision is definitely not best human practice on an ordinary city street for a human driver. If you detect a collision, you stop the vehicle, access the situation and maybe pull over based on your assessment of the situation. And this brings a question to me: How did they create, develop, this post-collision routine? Afaik, the overall program/system guiding a self-driving is some combination of trained neural-network routines and more standard robotic feedback loops. But "what to do after a collision" seems like one of those corner cases that neither programming approach would or could deal with so what development created this routine? It would have to be pure ad-hoc-ery and that suggests that in Cruise's approach to the last-mile/endless-corner-cases problem of self-driving cars is just that, a series of ad-hoc fixed. And this approach can neither be safe nor can it scale. And further, I have to presume Cruise and the others have a bay of human pilots that are called-on to deal with difficult situations. Why didn't the "you've just had a collision" signal not pull a human? (maybe it did and not saying that is their problem but otherwise..) The main explanation I can think of is ... the car's routines are already calling pilots a lot and the team is working feverishly to reduce this. An ad-hoc pull-over routine is intended to reduce those calls back to the pilots. Admittedly this is speculation but if true it reinforces my conclusion above.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > And further, I have to presume Cruise and the others have a bay of human pilots that are called-on to deal with difficult situations. And then there's a momentary thought of this, and then I think how bad/hard it would be. Sitting there in a "call center", "Ding!" and you're suddenly thrown in to a car mid-collision, needing to take instant surveying of the situation (like "there's someone partly trapped under the vehicle", "am I in the middle of an intersection/interstate", etc., et al. Even getting past that I think such a job would play absolute hell on epi, norepi, dopamine, etc., response and those people would burn out, quickly (and I say that as someone who spends a lot of time waking up to alarm tones going off before jumping in an ambulance or fire engine...).
  - eep_social 3y ago

hindsightbias 3y ago

[flagged]

twisteriffic 3y ago
... Stopped?
dehugger 3y ago
Stopped the vehicle, instead of continuing to drag them?
- mgiampapa 3y ago
  That's if they even saw the person was under them. My aunt got dragged by my grandfather as a child for a block and he at one point ran over my grandmother in a parking lot when she fell behind the car... this may say more about my grandfather than anything else, but average encompasses all kinds of drivers.
parshimers 3y ago
stop and get out of the car because someone just got flung onto/underneath your car? or perhaps have enough situational awareness to see that someone is about to walk into oncoming traffic?
mips_avatar 3y ago
This woman got dragged 20 feet and then the car rolled over her leg and stopped. The fire department had to come and remove the wheel of the car to get it off her leg. I don't know of a single person who would have done that.
- pj_mukh 3y ago
  Dragged 20 feet after she was pinned under the car, or after being hit by the (human) driver? This part is not clear to me, and DMV never makes it clear either.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    The DMV makes it perfectly clear. > After coming to a complete stop, it then attempted to do a “pullover maneuver while the pedestrian was underneath the vehicle.”
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
Mavvie 3y ago
I'm not too familiar with the details here, but probably hit the brakes and stop ASAP? If there could be someone under my car I wouldn't keep driving to "pull over safely".

pj_mukh 3y ago

Did Cruise release the video, its not clear to me a human driver would be better (other than some textual descriptions of the event)? The (human) person who actually caused the crash is still at large, and the bay area (SF + Oakland) still continues to one of the municipalities with negligble traffic enforcement [1] and massively dangerous (human) driving behavior [2]. So the city and DMV focussing their efforts on this corner case driving systems seems like dereliction of duty on the City attorney's and DoT's part. [1] https://sfstandard.com/2023/07/01/ask-the-standard-san-francisco-traffic-enforcement/ https://sfstandard.com/2023/07/01/ask-the-standard-san-franc... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzc15BeAaE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUzc15BeAaE

mips_avatar 3y ago
This woman got dragged 20 feet by the car after the collision, and then the car rolled over her leg and left her pinned to the ground until the fire department came and removed the wheel to get her out. The cruise vehicle wasn't at fault for the initial accident, but the subsequent damage it caused was entirely the fault of the autonomous vehicle. A person would have stopped and helped the pedestrian.
- ironman1478 3y ago
  The person who hit and run the woman in the first place shows this is obviously not true. You think they didn't notice?There was a muni bus who hit a pedestrian a few weeks ago and didn't even notice.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    If the Cruise had hit and run it might have been better than parking on the woman's leg.
    - ironman1478 3y ago
      Except it didn't immediately do that. Cruise released a report today saying that the car actually drove 20 feet and dragged the woman. There is no simple answer as to what to do. It's simply difficult and acting like there are easy answers to this is unproductive and imo not in the spirit of hackernews.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

joe_the_user 3y ago

Aside from the other comments, pulling over when you detect a collision is definitely not best human practice on an ordinary city street for a human driver. If you detect a collision, you stop the vehicle, access the situation and maybe pull over based on your assessment of the situation. And this brings a question to me: How did they create, develop, this post-collision routine? Afaik, the overall program/system guiding a self-driving is some combination of trained neural-network routines and more standard robotic feedback loops. But "what to do after a collision" seems like one of those corner cases that neither programming approach would or could deal with so what development created this routine? It would have to be pure ad-hoc-ery and that suggests that in Cruise's approach to the last-mile/endless-corner-cases problem of self-driving cars is just that, a series of ad-hoc fixed. And this approach can neither be safe nor can it scale. And further, I have to presume Cruise and the others have a bay of human pilots that are called-on to deal with difficult situations. Why didn't the "you've just had a collision" signal not pull a human? (maybe it did and not saying that is their problem but otherwise..) The main explanation I can think of is ... the car's routines are already calling pilots a lot and the team is working feverishly to reduce this. An ad-hoc pull-over routine is intended to reduce those calls back to the pilots. Admittedly this is speculation but if true it reinforces my conclusion above.

FireBeyond 3y ago
> And further, I have to presume Cruise and the others have a bay of human pilots that are called-on to deal with difficult situations. And then there's a momentary thought of this, and then I think how bad/hard it would be. Sitting there in a "call center", "Ding!" and you're suddenly thrown in to a car mid-collision, needing to take instant surveying of the situation (like "there's someone partly trapped under the vehicle", "am I in the middle of an intersection/interstate", etc., et al. Even getting past that I think such a job would play absolute hell on epi, norepi, dopamine, etc., response and those people would burn out, quickly (and I say that as someone who spends a lot of time waking up to alarm tones going off before jumping in an ambulance or fire engine...).
- eep_social 3y ago