5 ms·

Sounds like a call for hypochondria with no upside. “My toe hurts this morning and I had covid a year ago, must be post covid. Time to…”?

garganzol 3y ago
One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark dots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste. Post-covid is mostly physiological. Sure, it may cause some cognitive and psychological manifestations as well (asthenia, depression, derealization), but without treating the underlying physiology there is no way out.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > but without treating the underlying physiology, there is no way out. Are there any actual treatments though, besides "rest"?
  - garganzol 3y ago
    This video [0] may be a good intro to the topic. There are other resources like [1] who gather and publish related information, including the first-hand experiences of post-Covid sufferers. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY [1] https://www.hormonesmatter.com/ https://www.hormonesmatter.com/
    - TurningCanadian 3y ago
      Would be nice if YouTube URLs gave some context (e.g. author, title) This one is: @EONutrition Mega Dose Vitamin Therapy: Viral Infection & Post-viral Illness
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      Thanks, but I was looking for some actual scientifically recommended treatment programs, with backing research consisting of large enough sample sizes, not yet another YouTube video that cherry picks whatever the author is convinced is the root issue.
- sarchertech 3y ago
  It is almost never a good idea for the general population to read a list of symptoms to watch out for. Many of those are so subjective that just posting it here is almost guaranteed to lead to people freaking out and seeking unnecessary treatment.
  - 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
    If you have underlying conditions which could be worsened by the physical damage from COVID, you should absolutely talk to your doctor. Just like "freaking out" can cause unnecessary doctor trips, telling people they're seeking unnecessary treatment can cause negative health outcomes. There are many minority communities (most of which have almost no representation on HN, but anyway) have a myriad of different factors preventing them from going to or listening to doctors. Ultimately you can't control if someone "freaks out" or not. But you can share information that someone might use to protect their health.
    - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
      > most of which have almost no representation on HN How did you learn this?
      - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
        They didn't, they made it up.
    - sarchertech 3y ago
      Sharing a list of subjective symptoms to “watch out for” so people can “protect their health” isn’t helping anyone. There’s a difference between telling people to talk to their doctor if they have concerns and posting a list of symptoms which is likely to create concern where none of existed. Most of the mentioned symptoms are highly correlated with stress and anxiety. Listing them and encouraging people to pay attention to them is almost certainly doing more harm than good. There is also no widely recognized evidence based treatment for any of this. Advising people to seek treatment is likely going to be completely unhelpful, or worse encourage people to go down some quack rabbit hole and start mega dosing vitamins. Also I’d appreciate if you didn’t imply that cautioning people against posting this kind of medical advice was somehow anti-minority. I can guarantee you that no serious medical professional or minority health advocates are happy to see people posting these symptom lists on forums.
- CipherThrowaway 3y ago
  >One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark spots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste. With the exception of loss of smell and taste, these are all also associated with stress physiology. The exact mechanisms are unclear, but lifelong anxiety sufferers will be familiar with many of these. I've personally experienced all of these since I was a young teenager/child. Well before COVID was around. I don't want to minimize long COVID, because it is very real. But we should be careful about encouraging people with generalized anxiety symptoms to over-identify as long COVID.
  - m_a_g 3y ago
    Yes, exactly. All of these are physiological symptoms of anxiety. When the body is in a fight or flight mode and there is no apparent danger, we tend to notice these much more. But overall, they are absolutely and without doubt harmless.
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  One should pay attention to how big one's tongue feels in one's mouth and to also not think about pink elephants.
- fullmoon 3y ago
  You’ve inadvertently listed many symptoms associated with anxiety and panic disorder.
  - garganzol 3y ago
    Slow metabolic rate triggers a flight or fight response, just like a panic disorder, so no wonder there is an intersection of symptoms. But there is a big difference: slow metabolic rate leads to eventual cell death (metabolic encephalopathy), while panic disorder is physiologically harmless in comparison. It's hard to distinguish between the two, and not every doctor is able to do that. As an interesting observation, a metabolic disorder is not responsive to antidepressants alone.
VancouverMan 3y ago
From what I can see, there does seem to be a strong correlation between how much attention one paid to the government and media, and the subsequent attribution of health issues to having tested positive for an infection at some point. Among the people I know and that I'm aware of, there are three broad groups (spanning age, sex, and numerous other traits): 1) People who generally ignored the fear that governments, doctors, and the media tried to instill. They disregarded the lockdowns and other measures imposed by government, and remained calm. They didn't take tests, they didn't wear masks, they didn't get any shots, and they generally went about their lives as best that they could as if nothing was happening. 2) People who bought into it, and got somewhat worked up whenever it was pushed by the media. They masked, they stayed indoors when asked to do so, they took tests when they had to, they got shots and maybe boosters, and so on. But once the media focus moved on to other topics, they pretty much forgot about it all and moved on, too. 3) People who became extremely paranoid. Some of them masked month after month, even while at home, which they avoided leaving for weeks at a time. They took daily tests. They've taken every shot and booster available. They lived in a constant state of fear for years. Even after most other people moved on, they didn't, or in some cases, still haven't. The people I know who fall into the first group are consistently doing well, including those in their 70s, 80s, and even a few in their 90s. None have died, and none have had any major medical problems. I know that some of them don't even know if they ever contracted it, since they never got tested. If they had it, it was indistinguishable from any other cold or flu. It's a mix for people in the second group, although this is a numerically larger group. Some have had major health complications, including cancer and cardiovascular-related issues, but they generally don't blame their health problems on having tested positive for infection at some point. The third group are the only ones I hear of attributing ongoing health problems, no matter how minor or common, to a prior infection. Collectively, they now seem to have more serious medical issues, even among those who appeared quite healthy prior to early 2020. Also, I know that a number of these people are repeatedly testing positive for infection, even recently, despite having had numerous shots and boosters, and despite having supposedly overcome one or more prior infections that should have granted some degree of immunity. I can't say for sure if it's the only factor, but a person displaying more fear/paranoia in the past and present does appear to correlate with more medical problems in the present, and a greater likelihood of attributing such problems to having had prior test-indicated infection(s).

garganzol 3y ago

One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark dots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste. Post-covid is mostly physiological. Sure, it may cause some cognitive and psychological manifestations as well (asthenia, depression, derealization), but without treating the underlying physiology there is no way out.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
> but without treating the underlying physiology, there is no way out. Are there any actual treatments though, besides "rest"?
- garganzol 3y ago
  This video [0] may be a good intro to the topic. There are other resources like [1] who gather and publish related information, including the first-hand experiences of post-Covid sufferers. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY [1] https://www.hormonesmatter.com/ https://www.hormonesmatter.com/
  - TurningCanadian 3y ago
    Would be nice if YouTube URLs gave some context (e.g. author, title) This one is: @EONutrition Mega Dose Vitamin Therapy: Viral Infection & Post-viral Illness
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    Thanks, but I was looking for some actual scientifically recommended treatment programs, with backing research consisting of large enough sample sizes, not yet another YouTube video that cherry picks whatever the author is convinced is the root issue.
sarchertech 3y ago
It is almost never a good idea for the general population to read a list of symptoms to watch out for. Many of those are so subjective that just posting it here is almost guaranteed to lead to people freaking out and seeking unnecessary treatment.
- 0xbadcafebee 3y ago
  If you have underlying conditions which could be worsened by the physical damage from COVID, you should absolutely talk to your doctor. Just like "freaking out" can cause unnecessary doctor trips, telling people they're seeking unnecessary treatment can cause negative health outcomes. There are many minority communities (most of which have almost no representation on HN, but anyway) have a myriad of different factors preventing them from going to or listening to doctors. Ultimately you can't control if someone "freaks out" or not. But you can share information that someone might use to protect their health.
  - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
    > most of which have almost no representation on HN How did you learn this?
    - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
      They didn't, they made it up.
  - sarchertech 3y ago
    Sharing a list of subjective symptoms to “watch out for” so people can “protect their health” isn’t helping anyone. There’s a difference between telling people to talk to their doctor if they have concerns and posting a list of symptoms which is likely to create concern where none of existed. Most of the mentioned symptoms are highly correlated with stress and anxiety. Listing them and encouraging people to pay attention to them is almost certainly doing more harm than good. There is also no widely recognized evidence based treatment for any of this. Advising people to seek treatment is likely going to be completely unhelpful, or worse encourage people to go down some quack rabbit hole and start mega dosing vitamins. Also I’d appreciate if you didn’t imply that cautioning people against posting this kind of medical advice was somehow anti-minority. I can guarantee you that no serious medical professional or minority health advocates are happy to see people posting these symptom lists on forums.
CipherThrowaway 3y ago
>One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark spots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste. With the exception of loss of smell and taste, these are all also associated with stress physiology. The exact mechanisms are unclear, but lifelong anxiety sufferers will be familiar with many of these. I've personally experienced all of these since I was a young teenager/child. Well before COVID was around. I don't want to minimize long COVID, because it is very real. But we should be careful about encouraging people with generalized anxiety symptoms to over-identify as long COVID.
- m_a_g 3y ago
  Yes, exactly. All of these are physiological symptoms of anxiety. When the body is in a fight or flight mode and there is no apparent danger, we tend to notice these much more. But overall, they are absolutely and without doubt harmless.
unsupp0rted 3y ago
One should pay attention to how big one's tongue feels in one's mouth and to also not think about pink elephants.
fullmoon 3y ago
You’ve inadvertently listed many symptoms associated with anxiety and panic disorder.
- garganzol 3y ago
  Slow metabolic rate triggers a flight or fight response, just like a panic disorder, so no wonder there is an intersection of symptoms. But there is a big difference: slow metabolic rate leads to eventual cell death (metabolic encephalopathy), while panic disorder is physiologically harmless in comparison. It's hard to distinguish between the two, and not every doctor is able to do that. As an interesting observation, a metabolic disorder is not responsive to antidepressants alone.

VancouverMan 3y ago

From what I can see, there does seem to be a strong correlation between how much attention one paid to the government and media, and the subsequent attribution of health issues to having tested positive for an infection at some point. Among the people I know and that I'm aware of, there are three broad groups (spanning age, sex, and numerous other traits): 1) People who generally ignored the fear that governments, doctors, and the media tried to instill. They disregarded the lockdowns and other measures imposed by government, and remained calm. They didn't take tests, they didn't wear masks, they didn't get any shots, and they generally went about their lives as best that they could as if nothing was happening. 2) People who bought into it, and got somewhat worked up whenever it was pushed by the media. They masked, they stayed indoors when asked to do so, they took tests when they had to, they got shots and maybe boosters, and so on. But once the media focus moved on to other topics, they pretty much forgot about it all and moved on, too. 3) People who became extremely paranoid. Some of them masked month after month, even while at home, which they avoided leaving for weeks at a time. They took daily tests. They've taken every shot and booster available. They lived in a constant state of fear for years. Even after most other people moved on, they didn't, or in some cases, still haven't. The people I know who fall into the first group are consistently doing well, including those in their 70s, 80s, and even a few in their 90s. None have died, and none have had any major medical problems. I know that some of them don't even know if they ever contracted it, since they never got tested. If they had it, it was indistinguishable from any other cold or flu. It's a mix for people in the second group, although this is a numerically larger group. Some have had major health complications, including cancer and cardiovascular-related issues, but they generally don't blame their health problems on having tested positive for infection at some point. The third group are the only ones I hear of attributing ongoing health problems, no matter how minor or common, to a prior infection. Collectively, they now seem to have more serious medical issues, even among those who appeared quite healthy prior to early 2020. Also, I know that a number of these people are repeatedly testing positive for infection, even recently, despite having had numerous shots and boosters, and despite having supposedly overcome one or more prior infections that should have granted some degree of immunity. I can't say for sure if it's the only factor, but a person displaying more fear/paranoia in the past and present does appear to correlate with more medical problems in the present, and a greater likelihood of attributing such problems to having had prior test-indicated infection(s).