6 ms·

Covid can be viewed as a metabolic disease. Not only because it may directly reduce the amount of oxygen in the blood, but also because it creates tons of infla

Covid can be viewed as a metabolic disease. Not only because it may directly reduce the amount of oxygen in the blood, but also because it creates tons of inflammation and oxidative stress, and that stress seems to affect cells and their energy producing apparatus (mitochondria), causing damages. Those acquired damages inhibit the production of sufficient amounts of energy (ATP). As a consequence, this creates a fertile ground for other pathologies: neurological, cardiac, gastrointestinal, endocrine, autoimmune. In many ways, post-covid is similar to the effects created by beriberi and pellagra diseases. The worst thing is that the incidence of post-covid is hard to predict as it does not depend on severity of the initial disease. If you had a covid, you should be very attentive to a possible onset of post-viral symptoms.

ifyoubuildit 3y ago
> If you had a covid, you should be very attentive to a possible onset of post-viral symptoms. Why? This might cause more harm than good, and if it's something that turns out bad enough, you probably don't need to be particularly attentive to notice it.
- garganzol 3y ago
  To avoid wasting precious time. If left untreated, post-covid may make person's life miserable, full of pain, suffering, chronic fatigue, and inability to work. There is no standard treatment yet, but things that treat beriberi and pellagra do seem to work for post-covid as well, to some degree.
  - simmanian 3y ago
    what are some good post-covid treatments? I seem to be having symptoms of depression after covid. WebMD says a thiamine-rich diet is good to treat beri beri, but not sure if "eating better" can help me out here.
    - jonReadingNews 3y ago
      Officially? None. See https://x.com/erictopol/status/1689303073494335488 https://x.com/erictopol/status/1689303073494335488
    - garganzol 3y ago
      When the condition enters a pathological state, eating better is not enough to overcome it. There are no official treatments yet, but you can find some data from the field.
    - soperj 3y ago
      Recent research suggests "that some people with long COVID still had virus fragments lingering in their guts, long after they were no longer testing positive for the virus. Those particles, located through stool samples, might be enough to trigger the release of interferons. That could set off a chain reaction, leading to inflammation that makes it tougher for the digestive system to absorb tryptophan — an essential amino acid found in food that helps the body make serotonin. " [1] 1. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/new-research-offers-clues-to-what-causes-long-covid-fuelling-hope-for-eventual-treatments-1.7002046 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/new-research-offers-clues-to-...
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      >I seem to be having symptoms of depression after covid. Have you considered you might be depressed?
    - randomopining 3y ago
      Fucoidan is the best treatment. It handles the issues in the article directly. Mark my words that people will catch on to this more and more in the coming years.
  - digi59404 3y ago
    Covid was pretty easy but uncomfortable for me. Post-Covid has not been so.. I have somewhat severe post-Covid symptoms. I took a look at the Beriberi symptoms list. I have every single symptom of both wet and dry beriberi. Time for a Thiamine blood test.
    - garganzol 3y ago
      There is a gotcha: quantitative thiamine tests are false negative most of the times. But other blood markers can be revealing: homocysteine, HOMA-IR, blood pH, lactic acid. And it's not always exclusively a thiamine, for some people it's anemia, B3, or B12 deficiencies, or a combination of those.
kortilla 3y ago
Sounds like a call for hypochondria with no upside. “My toe hurts this morning and I had covid a year ago, must be post covid. Time to…”?
- garganzol 3y ago
  One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark dots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste. Post-covid is mostly physiological. Sure, it may cause some cognitive and psychological manifestations as well (asthenia, depression, derealization), but without treating the underlying physiology there is no way out.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
    > but without treating the underlying physiology, there is no way out. Are there any actual treatments though, besides "rest"?
    - garganzol 3y ago
      This video [0] may be a good intro to the topic. There are other resources like [1] who gather and publish related information, including the first-hand experiences of post-Covid sufferers. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY [1] https://www.hormonesmatter.com/ https://www.hormonesmatter.com/
      - TurningCanadian 3y ago
        Would be nice if YouTube URLs gave some context (e.g. author, title) This one is: @EONutrition Mega Dose Vitamin Therapy: Viral Infection & Post-viral Illness
      - 3y ago
guythedudebro 3y ago
Wonder if creatine would have any help with the ATP thing
- lawlessone 3y ago
  Purely anecdotal but I have found creatine gives me more mental energy, even pre covid.
  - anjel 3y ago
    Not just anecdotal: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33578876/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33578876/
blindriver 3y ago
COVID is most assuredly NOT a metabolic disease. That's unscientific misinformation and fear mongering.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- _yb2s 3y ago
  There is nothing unscientific about mentioning that covid interacts with and alters metabolism in various ways. This is a hot research topic, in particular because scientists are trying to understand why covid causes fatigue. However I would say that by that definition, virtually all diseases and health problems are “metabolic” in different ways. Which is actually a helpful insight when trying to understand and develop treatments.
- francisofascii 3y ago
  There is some evidence that COVID might induce a metabolic disease like diabetes. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-diabetes-fat-cells-blood-sugar https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-diabet...
  - garganzol 3y ago
    Post-covid T2DM is a way of body to compensate for the loss of metabolic rate. A cell uses 3 main substrates to produce energy: glucose, lipids, and oxygen. When metabolic rate is low, the brain subconsciously registers that condition and tries to "increase" the ATP yield by increasing the amount of substrates in the blood. The glucose concentration gets increased by gluconeogenesis, the oxygen gets increased by hyperventilation. In parallel, increased levels of insulin are produced to increase glucose transport function. The aim of the brain is to satisfy the energy demand, and all those compensatory actions are effective to some degree. However, the cells cannot consume all that glucose despite the massive insulin presence due to a wrecked metabolic machinery of mitochondria, and the body remains hanging in a diabetic, insulin-resistant state of T2DM. If ATP demand is still not met, hyperventilation eventually reaches its peak state, and the individual starts experiencing shortness of breath. If this state of unmet homeostasis lasts for some longer time, the signs of pathological tissue hypoxia start to kick in, causing the appearance of neurological symptoms, which are then followed by metabolic panic attacks (crashes) when left untreated. After that, a more serious cognitive impairment may follow: slurred speech, partial vision loss, problems with spatial navigation, photophobia, etc. All those symptoms correspond to a border-line dementia and may signify the close proximity of a point of no return.
luxuryballs 3y ago
the inflammation seems to be caused by the immune system which makes me wonder if certain things that suppress the immune system can mitigate the damage, almost a catch-22 perhaps
- garganzol 3y ago
  Immunosuppression do help, even its lightest forms such as NSAIDs in small quantities. But immunosuppression alone is not enough to overcome the pathology.
thenerdhead 3y ago
> The worst thing is that the incidence of post-covid is hard to predict as it does not depend on severity of the initial disease. There are various groups who are now using machine learning to predict long covid based on reporting of symptoms and even immune features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB5NclIemQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB5NclIemQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNMzaZk_iU&t=3203s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNMzaZk_iU&t=3203s Lots of budding research here on long covid / post covid conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=278vwGkFXRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=278vwGkFXRM

ifyoubuildit 3y ago

> If you had a covid, you should be very attentive to a possible onset of post-viral symptoms. Why? This might cause more harm than good, and if it's something that turns out bad enough, you probably don't need to be particularly attentive to notice it.

garganzol 3y ago
To avoid wasting precious time. If left untreated, post-covid may make person's life miserable, full of pain, suffering, chronic fatigue, and inability to work. There is no standard treatment yet, but things that treat beriberi and pellagra do seem to work for post-covid as well, to some degree.
- simmanian 3y ago
  what are some good post-covid treatments? I seem to be having symptoms of depression after covid. WebMD says a thiamine-rich diet is good to treat beri beri, but not sure if "eating better" can help me out here.
  - jonReadingNews 3y ago
    Officially? None. See https://x.com/erictopol/status/1689303073494335488 https://x.com/erictopol/status/1689303073494335488
  - garganzol 3y ago
    When the condition enters a pathological state, eating better is not enough to overcome it. There are no official treatments yet, but you can find some data from the field.
  - soperj 3y ago
    Recent research suggests "that some people with long COVID still had virus fragments lingering in their guts, long after they were no longer testing positive for the virus. Those particles, located through stool samples, might be enough to trigger the release of interferons. That could set off a chain reaction, leading to inflammation that makes it tougher for the digestive system to absorb tryptophan — an essential amino acid found in food that helps the body make serotonin. " [1] 1. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/new-research-offers-clues-to-what-causes-long-covid-fuelling-hope-for-eventual-treatments-1.7002046 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/new-research-offers-clues-to-...
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    >I seem to be having symptoms of depression after covid. Have you considered you might be depressed?
  - randomopining 3y ago
    Fucoidan is the best treatment. It handles the issues in the article directly. Mark my words that people will catch on to this more and more in the coming years.
- digi59404 3y ago
  Covid was pretty easy but uncomfortable for me. Post-Covid has not been so.. I have somewhat severe post-Covid symptoms. I took a look at the Beriberi symptoms list. I have every single symptom of both wet and dry beriberi. Time for a Thiamine blood test.
  - garganzol 3y ago
    There is a gotcha: quantitative thiamine tests are false negative most of the times. But other blood markers can be revealing: homocysteine, HOMA-IR, blood pH, lactic acid. And it's not always exclusively a thiamine, for some people it's anemia, B3, or B12 deficiencies, or a combination of those.

kortilla 3y ago

Sounds like a call for hypochondria with no upside. “My toe hurts this morning and I had covid a year ago, must be post covid. Time to…”?

garganzol 3y ago
One should pay attention to the following symptoms: tingling/burning sensations especially in limbs, complexities with swallowing (dysphagia), chronic fatigue, shortness of breath with >= 96% SpO2, uncontrolled muscle cramps, panic attacks, agoraphobia, persistent tinnitus, appearance of dark dots in the field of vision, problems with regulation of body temperature (persistent hypo- or hyperthermia), persistent distortion/loss of smell/taste. Post-covid is mostly physiological. Sure, it may cause some cognitive and psychological manifestations as well (asthenia, depression, derealization), but without treating the underlying physiology there is no way out.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
  > but without treating the underlying physiology, there is no way out. Are there any actual treatments though, besides "rest"?
  - garganzol 3y ago
    This video [0] may be a good intro to the topic. There are other resources like [1] who gather and publish related information, including the first-hand experiences of post-Covid sufferers. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UOyE-3PbJY [1] https://www.hormonesmatter.com/ https://www.hormonesmatter.com/
    - TurningCanadian 3y ago
      Would be nice if YouTube URLs gave some context (e.g. author, title) This one is: @EONutrition Mega Dose Vitamin Therapy: Viral Infection & Post-viral Illness
    - 3y ago

guythedudebro 3y ago

Wonder if creatine would have any help with the ATP thing

lawlessone 3y ago
Purely anecdotal but I have found creatine gives me more mental energy, even pre covid.
- anjel 3y ago
  Not just anecdotal: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33578876/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33578876/

blindriver 3y ago

COVID is most assuredly NOT a metabolic disease. That's unscientific misinformation and fear mongering.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
_yb2s 3y ago
There is nothing unscientific about mentioning that covid interacts with and alters metabolism in various ways. This is a hot research topic, in particular because scientists are trying to understand why covid causes fatigue. However I would say that by that definition, virtually all diseases and health problems are “metabolic” in different ways. Which is actually a helpful insight when trying to understand and develop treatments.
francisofascii 3y ago
There is some evidence that COVID might induce a metabolic disease like diabetes. https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-diabetes-fat-cells-blood-sugar https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-diabet...
- garganzol 3y ago
  Post-covid T2DM is a way of body to compensate for the loss of metabolic rate. A cell uses 3 main substrates to produce energy: glucose, lipids, and oxygen. When metabolic rate is low, the brain subconsciously registers that condition and tries to "increase" the ATP yield by increasing the amount of substrates in the blood. The glucose concentration gets increased by gluconeogenesis, the oxygen gets increased by hyperventilation. In parallel, increased levels of insulin are produced to increase glucose transport function. The aim of the brain is to satisfy the energy demand, and all those compensatory actions are effective to some degree. However, the cells cannot consume all that glucose despite the massive insulin presence due to a wrecked metabolic machinery of mitochondria, and the body remains hanging in a diabetic, insulin-resistant state of T2DM. If ATP demand is still not met, hyperventilation eventually reaches its peak state, and the individual starts experiencing shortness of breath. If this state of unmet homeostasis lasts for some longer time, the signs of pathological tissue hypoxia start to kick in, causing the appearance of neurological symptoms, which are then followed by metabolic panic attacks (crashes) when left untreated. After that, a more serious cognitive impairment may follow: slurred speech, partial vision loss, problems with spatial navigation, photophobia, etc. All those symptoms correspond to a border-line dementia and may signify the close proximity of a point of no return.

luxuryballs 3y ago

the inflammation seems to be caused by the immune system which makes me wonder if certain things that suppress the immune system can mitigate the damage, almost a catch-22 perhaps

garganzol 3y ago
Immunosuppression do help, even its lightest forms such as NSAIDs in small quantities. But immunosuppression alone is not enough to overcome the pathology.

thenerdhead 3y ago

> The worst thing is that the incidence of post-covid is hard to predict as it does not depend on severity of the initial disease. There are various groups who are now using machine learning to predict long covid based on reporting of symptoms and even immune features. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB5NclIemQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB5NclIemQ4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNMzaZk_iU&t=3203s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYNMzaZk_iU&t=3203s Lots of budding research here on long covid / post covid conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=278vwGkFXRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=278vwGkFXRM