9 ms·

Woman's Pockets Are Inferior

bell-cot 3y ago
All too true...but you'll need to develop a serious business plan, pitch deck, etc. to get any VC funding for your new "Equal Pockets" clothing line and web store. I'd suggest starting with some market research. The clothing industry is said to be pretty responsive to customer demand, with fairly low barriers to entry. Why aren't your future competitors already cashing in on this problem?
- RA2lover 3y ago
  Maybe they figured selling purses separately was more lucrative?
  - arnaudvalette 3y ago
    Then the good move is to reduce the size of men pockets and sell purses to men.
    - askonomm 3y ago
      Oh man, would love to hear the marketing strategy that would be able to convince men to buy purses.
      - AlecSchueler 3y ago
        Never heard of the man bag?
        askonomm 3y ago
        Do you mean the man purse? The thing that's exclusively for middle-aged dads who care about nothing other than practicality?
        dagw 3y ago
        I've noticed a lot of 'fashionable' young men carrying those small bags that hang diagonally across the chest or back. Seems like the man purses are having a moment.
        shrikant 3y ago
        > middle-aged dads who care about nothing other than practicality Damn dude, I didn't ask to catch strays like this :(
        AlecSchueler 3y ago
        Are middle aged dads not men?
      - jdlan 3y ago
        It's European!!!
        askonomm 3y ago
        Haha spot on! Being a European myself, I always find it funny what Americans think European is. Apparently we're all nudists or wearing Borat bikinis, everybody is apparently into swinger lifestyle, and we're all dressed like we came out of a French fashion magazine.
        smogcutter 3y ago
        They’re quoting a Seinfeld episode, just fyi
        hef19898 3y ago
        Unless we drink beer from a stein (which is called a Masskrug!!!) and wear lederhosen that is!
      - arnaudvalette 3y ago
        Just give cardboard purses to persons from highly cultural cities through cultural events, your enemy is the so called 'tote bag'. cardboard purses should be disposable, solid enough to transport something (e.g. some book the person bought) from a museum to the person house, but fragile enough to last only one week or so, IMPORTANT : the purse should be "cool" enough so people will prefer this to let's say the usual paper bag you get at the grocery store. Then, when you have taken the place of the tote bag, you can build the start-up that will manufacture and sell real purses, which will prove useful due to the downsizing of the men pockets, to transport phones, books, and coin purses.
      - almatabata 3y ago
        This was extremely common with a certain category of youngsters when i was in school. The guys would all have these kind of sports outfit and all have a small bag like this: https://www.hexagona.com/fr/sacs-bandouliere-sacs-banane/553-3300-sacoche-784636.html https://www.hexagona.com/fr/sacs-bandouliere-sacs-banane/553...
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    Are you claiming everybody that creates pants also has a purse line? Otherwise, the company(ies) that don't create purses don't make more money selling purses + pants. Of course, there could be a new company that makers neither pants nor purses that gets into the pants making business. --- It's aesthetics, pockets don't make a woman's figure slimming so they don't sell as well.
  - 7thaccount 3y ago
    That doesn't track unless it's all part of a monopoly. Absent monopoly, you'd likely already have a company doing this and making money. I can't not believe that the some companies didn't do market research on this. I've heard many women complain over the years about the small pockets, but my assumption (possibly very wrong) is that they might not buy a pair of jeans if giving them full sized pockets made them significantly less fashionable (i.e. they'd get less utility out of them).
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > I've heard many women complain over the years about the small pockets Talk to those women and they will admit there are many clothes for women with pockets, just that those doesn't look as good so they are searching hard for good looking clothes with pockets which basically doesn't exist. They rather buy clothes they like without pockets than clothes they find ugly with pockets.
      - 7thaccount 3y ago
        That's what I said (or at least tried to say), just less intelligently lol.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  The problem is, that people want one thing then buy another. I'm a guy, i want pockets, more pockets, even more pockets, and I bought cargo pants once, but actually putting all the stuff in the pockets makes them really heavy. I also want a tiny laptop (think GPD pocket), but working on that really sucks... I also want a huge 19" laptop as a desktop replacement, but where would I actually carry that? There are womens clothes with pockets, also womens cargo pants exist, but in the end, most women buy other stuff, and most non-specialized stores sell stuff that women (..well, and men) buy the most.
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    You're missing the point and talking about something different. Women, believe it or not, are just like men, in that they are human beings. As human beings, women (just like men!) have a variety of competing preferences that all must be balanced in the presence of a limited budget set. It's totally possible to find women's pants with big pockets. It's also possible to find women's pants made of high-quality materials. Furthermore, it's possible (if you browse carefully) to find women's pants that have a relatively neutral straight cut, but still fit nicely around the hips, thighs, buttocks, and waist. What's broadly impossible is to actually find all three of those characteristics in the same pair of pants. If you buy pants at H&M, they might fit how you want, but they are going to fall apart. If you buy pants at Marshall's, they won't look good and they might still fall apart. If you buy pants at Madewell, they are cut assuming the wearer is a scrawny teenager, unless you specifically size up into the "plus" category. Etc etc. What's also borderline impossible is to find pants that fit in both waist and leg length if your body proportions are not that of a limited prescribed set, because women's pants are not sold according to separate waist and leg sizes. But that's a separate issue. It actually exemplifies the problem here, but that first requires us to think about adult women as adult conscious intelligent human people and not as abstract instinct-driven chimpanzee-like entities. So let's not go there. The overarching problem as I see it is that there are no women's pants that are just normal pants. There's always something funky about them. Remember, I'm not just talking about knockaround faded blue jeans. Pants are worn for a variety of reasons. Go to any urban downtown area and look at the men who look like they're on their way to work. Several of them will probably be wearing high-end selvedge denim or twill chinos. The lower leg will be straight and slim, landing more or less at the correct location at the top of the shoe. The thigh and seat will be fitted comfortably but not baggy. The material is sturdy and high-quality. There is no unnecessary wear applied to the pants, no feathering, no tears at the bottom edge, no holes at the knees. The pockets will be standard size, big enough for the wearer's oversize iPhone XQBERT 45 with 6 cameras in one pocket, and their tactical EDC card clip in the other. They will likely also have some kind of shoulder bag or backpack, revealing that they do in fact desire to carry items that don't fit in a standard pocket. Find me a pair of pants like that in a cut appropriate for a woman's hip/thigh/seat proportions, and I'll pay you a finders fee, because my wife would be very interested in purchasing them.
roenxi 3y ago
Less inflammatory but more technically correct - Woman's Pockets Reveal That Women Do Not Value Putting Things In Their Pockets. It stretches credulity, given the control women stereotypically have over clothing decisions, that large-pocketed clothes would not be an option if there was demand. Evidence suggests that any demand is a vocal minority.
- arghwhat 3y ago
  This is not accurate. Choice only reflects preference when sufficient choices are available (in this case, having common options with large pockets), and that making a selection based on preference in that area does not require significant downgrades on other areas (having a cargo pants option is not sufficient if the user is looking for skinny jeans with larger pockets).
  - Jensson 3y ago
    You are assuming that you know better than the experts who design and decide what clothes to sell. Those experts are sometimes wrong, yes, but not that often, you need really good arguments to convince us that you know better than them.
    - arghwhat 3y ago
      If everyone needs jeans, and everyone makes jeans with small pockets, everyone will buy jeans with small pockets and make the analytics show that the market is satisfied and profit targets are met. These "experts" only maximize for their own preferred design and target profits. The fact that womens pockets are ridiculously small has become a meme is a good indication that they are wrong and do not care. Ask any seamstress and they will agree.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > The fact that womens pockets are ridiculously small has become a meme is a good indication that they are wrong and do not care. This isn't true, it can be a meme anyway if women prefer the looks of small pockets they wont even consider the larger pocketed one, and we end up in the current situation. It isn't hard to find clothes with larger pockets, it is hard to find clothes women like with larger pockets.
formerly_proven 3y ago
One word: Revealed preference
jezzamon 3y ago
Looking at the comments here, fairly clear to see hacker news' gender imbalance / biases...
- Jensson 3y ago
  We trust the experts instead of random anecdotes. In this case the experts thinks that women prefer clothes without noticeable pockets, so that is what they sell. Can you explain why you think the experts are wrong and your hunch is right?
  - hef19898 3y ago
    Because, as others pointed out, those "experts" don't seem to listen to women. Excibit A: Too small pockets on women's jeans are a meme now.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      It being a meme doesn't mean that women doesn't prefer the looks of small pockets. What they want is to have the looks of small pockets but still have large pockets, that is really hard to satisfy.
      - formerly_proven 3y ago
        According to the memes nobody has been buying even a single GPU for years, as they are all far too large, power hungry and expensive.
    - Veen 3y ago
      The experts are women. Maybe you should listen to the women who run the fashion industry instead of assuming you know better.
  - smegger001 3y ago
    Because clothing designers are famouslys self selected for prefering form over function.
nottorp 3y ago
"Heads up, you’re about to experience some scroll-driven animations. If you’d like to skip that, you can jump ahead to the final state." Oh thanks. It would have been even better if you hadn't done the scroll driven animations at all.
- chalsprhebaodu 3y ago
  Really? Clearly some people enjoy scroll driven animations as a stylistic choice and you’re given a warning and a chance to opt out and you still complain?
  - master-lincoln 3y ago
    It's not clear that some people enjoy scroll driven animations. Why is it to you? Why not voice if you dislike something even if you can opt out with extra clicks?
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Which people? Give me one pre existing quote of someone who claims to enjoy useless animations in their info and is not a designer. Edit: emphasis on pre existing thank you. Not replies to my comment after the fact :)
    - ipython 3y ago
      I enjoyed the animations. I’m not a designer.
    - festive-minsky 3y ago
      I like them..
    - dagw 3y ago
      While not always a fan, I though this particular example was well done.
    - nerdponx 3y ago
      I enjoyed the animations, but I didn't find them useless. You're correct that I don't enjoy useless animations, but this is not a useless animation.
RecycledEle 3y ago
> There are few things more frustrating than collecting your belongings only to realize that the pockets in your pants are too small to hold them. I'd like to report sexism.\s To say that women have few problems more substantial than their stuff not fitting in their pockets is incredibly sexist.\s As a guy, I'll throw the stuff in my laptop bag (that I carry daily without a laptop) or in a fanny pack if I am going to be more active. This is not a major source of frustration for me, even when I have to carry half-a-dozen medical gadgets with me due to my many conditions. Anyone who finds putting things in their pockets to be a major concern needs to get a real job. As for the complaint that womens clothing is more for fashion than practicality, they can do what I did when an early Galaxy Note phone did not fit in my shirt pocket: Buy a sewing machine. I still love my Singer 44s.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  So you're a man, presumably born as such, and with the stereotypical anatomy thereof. You also acknowledge that you have somewhat idiosyncratic preferences, and the "stuff" you have in mind doesn't fit in pockets anyway. And yet you have the audacity to tell other people what to do, based on your n=1 experience, with the implication that if they just did what you did they'd be happier. That's utter nonsense and defies logic.
  - RecycledEle 3y ago
    LOL!
hackererror404 3y ago
Just make large pockets fashionably popular for women and women will have larger pockets... Don't think that this is rocket science or anything.
growingkittens 3y ago
According to this comment section: The lack of workable pockets comes down to women's morality. After all, doesn't the free market offer exactly what is demanded? The option must be there, women just don't choose it because they think it's ugly. Women are never socially punished for looking frumpy, obviously. Women are also responsible for the actions of the fashion industry.
- empyrrhicist 3y ago
  It's wild. This is a common theme though, the quality of HN discussion on average can be absolutely terrible when it comes to gender.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    Yes, in a normal thread people wouldn't argue that a highly competitive market fails to sell products the consumer would like even though those products are easy to make. But when you start to talk about women all rationality goes out the window and now people suddenly believe the people who sell products are total idiots.
    - empyrrhicist 3y ago
      That's such a ridiculously oversimplified take on how the modern economy/clothing industry works it's almost childish. Markets aren't magic, and there are lots of reasons customers wouldn't get what they want. Not to mention, my default stance is to simply believe people when they tell me what they want - you should try it sometime. With that in mind, even if you want to hold on to your weird market utopia fantasy, it certainly seems like there must be a sizeable minority of people who want (and, anecdotally, who DO go out of their way to find when possible) pants with functional pockets. "That's what the market sells so it's what you must want" is such a wild take.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        > my default stance is to simply believe people when they tell me what they want That is even more childish though, we know for sure that people don't really know what they want. What is available is a much better predictor for what people want than what they say they want. Peoples opinions are a valuable input, but it isn't the most important. Expert decisions that considered peoples opinions among many other things are a much better signal.
anymouse123456 3y ago
"See that guy over there?" she says as she gestures toward a man wearing very short, very tight, cut-off jean shorts on the corner of Castro and Market street. "He would never clutter up his butt with a giant wallet." Me: "That's great for him, but I don't care how cluttered my butt is." The moment I learned that some women (at least one of them), are more interested in form than function when it comes to pants pockets.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
ipsin 3y ago
It's sad how quickly "JS demonstration with non-male viewpoint" gets buried on HN, with comments and downvotes.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bell-cot 3y ago
A couple points that I don't see being made here: - In many instances, a woman who actually prioritizes quantity and quality of pockets has the easy option of purchasing "Men's" clothing. - Women are generally (by male standards) hyperaware of the "look" of other women, and often are systematically cruel toward a woman whose "look" doesn't meet their approval. If you're a woman, and really want good pockets...you may very reasonably conclude that it would not be worth the social costs imposed by other women.
nerdponx 3y ago
The amount of men here explaining to women why their lack of good choices is their own fault is depressing. I suppose I needed a reminder that just because it's the 2020s doesn't mean people have advanced beyond the arrogance of ignorance.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  True, to some degree. OTOH - neither "men" nor "women" are tightly coordinated and cohesive teams, and not every imperfection in the world is the fault of men. I figured out fairly young that any disagreements or drama between my female relatives were their business, not mine, and it was generally wisest to make myself scarce for the duration.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  That is a false characterization of the discussion. The specific claim is the low supply or even total lack of women’s clothing with bigger pockets is a reflection of the desires of the market as a whole, not specifically about pocket size, but the entire garment being purchased. This claim is because making and selling women’s clothing with bigger pockets is trivial, so the deduction is that the sellers have experienced insufficient demand if they are not offering it. The other option is sellers have not picked up on an opportunity to sell a more competitive product, which might be true if buying tastes have changed.
  - almatabata 3y ago
    I think you can add another criteria that certain commenters here have revealed. They usually also say that they do not want to scour the web for a pair of pants that has larger pockets (see example comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38000006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38000006). This means you also have to add convenience to the list of criteria. I would classify small startups as more inconvenient which might in part explain why they struggle to fill this niche.
    - nerdponx 3y ago
      It's worth making clear that "convenience" in this case is really more like "not expending relatively large amounts of time, energy, and money". Characterizing that as "convenience" seems demeaning to me, unless we also consider it a convenience that I don't need to fetch my water from a well or light a fire to take a warm bath.
jezzamon 3y ago
Unrelated to the general direction the comments are taking here, it's apparently not toooo hard to modify pants to extend their pockets. You'll find tonnes of videos by women on how to do that. So if there are pants that are otherwise good but have small pockets, that is an option.
nzach 3y ago
What if this is a problem with usability, and have nothing to with personal preferences? I imagine that for a tight pair of jeans would be pretty annoying put and carry things in pockets. You may even need both hands to put something in your pocket if your pants are tight enough. This means that even if you had large pockets in tight jeans you would probably not use them anyways. And looking at the data provided this seems to be a probable exaplanation, as skinny jeans generally have a smaller pocket compared to their straight counterparts.

All too true...but you'll need to develop a serious business plan, pitch deck, etc. to get any VC funding for your new "Equal Pockets" clothing line and web store. I'd suggest starting with some market research. The clothing industry is said to be pretty responsive to customer demand, with fairly low barriers to entry. Why aren't your future competitors already cashing in on this problem?

RA2lover 3y ago
Maybe they figured selling purses separately was more lucrative?
- arnaudvalette 3y ago
  Then the good move is to reduce the size of men pockets and sell purses to men.
  - askonomm 3y ago
    Oh man, would love to hear the marketing strategy that would be able to convince men to buy purses.
    - AlecSchueler 3y ago
      Never heard of the man bag?
      - askonomm 3y ago
        Do you mean the man purse? The thing that's exclusively for middle-aged dads who care about nothing other than practicality?
        dagw 3y ago
        I've noticed a lot of 'fashionable' young men carrying those small bags that hang diagonally across the chest or back. Seems like the man purses are having a moment.
        shrikant 3y ago
        > middle-aged dads who care about nothing other than practicality Damn dude, I didn't ask to catch strays like this :(
        AlecSchueler 3y ago
        Are middle aged dads not men?
    - jdlan 3y ago
      It's European!!!
      - askonomm 3y ago
        Haha spot on! Being a European myself, I always find it funny what Americans think European is. Apparently we're all nudists or wearing Borat bikinis, everybody is apparently into swinger lifestyle, and we're all dressed like we came out of a French fashion magazine.
        smogcutter 3y ago
        They’re quoting a Seinfeld episode, just fyi
        hef19898 3y ago
        Unless we drink beer from a stein (which is called a Masskrug!!!) and wear lederhosen that is!
    - arnaudvalette 3y ago
      Just give cardboard purses to persons from highly cultural cities through cultural events, your enemy is the so called 'tote bag'. cardboard purses should be disposable, solid enough to transport something (e.g. some book the person bought) from a museum to the person house, but fragile enough to last only one week or so, IMPORTANT : the purse should be "cool" enough so people will prefer this to let's say the usual paper bag you get at the grocery store. Then, when you have taken the place of the tote bag, you can build the start-up that will manufacture and sell real purses, which will prove useful due to the downsizing of the men pockets, to transport phones, books, and coin purses.
    - almatabata 3y ago
      This was extremely common with a certain category of youngsters when i was in school. The guys would all have these kind of sports outfit and all have a small bag like this: https://www.hexagona.com/fr/sacs-bandouliere-sacs-banane/553-3300-sacoche-784636.html https://www.hexagona.com/fr/sacs-bandouliere-sacs-banane/553...
- lesuorac 3y ago
  Are you claiming everybody that creates pants also has a purse line? Otherwise, the company(ies) that don't create purses don't make more money selling purses + pants. Of course, there could be a new company that makers neither pants nor purses that gets into the pants making business. --- It's aesthetics, pockets don't make a woman's figure slimming so they don't sell as well.
- 7thaccount 3y ago
  That doesn't track unless it's all part of a monopoly. Absent monopoly, you'd likely already have a company doing this and making money. I can't not believe that the some companies didn't do market research on this. I've heard many women complain over the years about the small pockets, but my assumption (possibly very wrong) is that they might not buy a pair of jeans if giving them full sized pockets made them significantly less fashionable (i.e. they'd get less utility out of them).
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > I've heard many women complain over the years about the small pockets Talk to those women and they will admit there are many clothes for women with pockets, just that those doesn't look as good so they are searching hard for good looking clothes with pockets which basically doesn't exist. They rather buy clothes they like without pockets than clothes they find ugly with pockets.
    - 7thaccount 3y ago
      That's what I said (or at least tried to say), just less intelligently lol.
ajsnigrutin 3y ago
The problem is, that people want one thing then buy another. I'm a guy, i want pockets, more pockets, even more pockets, and I bought cargo pants once, but actually putting all the stuff in the pockets makes them really heavy. I also want a tiny laptop (think GPD pocket), but working on that really sucks... I also want a huge 19" laptop as a desktop replacement, but where would I actually carry that? There are womens clothes with pockets, also womens cargo pants exist, but in the end, most women buy other stuff, and most non-specialized stores sell stuff that women (..well, and men) buy the most.
- nerdponx 3y ago
  You're missing the point and talking about something different. Women, believe it or not, are just like men, in that they are human beings. As human beings, women (just like men!) have a variety of competing preferences that all must be balanced in the presence of a limited budget set. It's totally possible to find women's pants with big pockets. It's also possible to find women's pants made of high-quality materials. Furthermore, it's possible (if you browse carefully) to find women's pants that have a relatively neutral straight cut, but still fit nicely around the hips, thighs, buttocks, and waist. What's broadly impossible is to actually find all three of those characteristics in the same pair of pants. If you buy pants at H&M, they might fit how you want, but they are going to fall apart. If you buy pants at Marshall's, they won't look good and they might still fall apart. If you buy pants at Madewell, they are cut assuming the wearer is a scrawny teenager, unless you specifically size up into the "plus" category. Etc etc. What's also borderline impossible is to find pants that fit in both waist and leg length if your body proportions are not that of a limited prescribed set, because women's pants are not sold according to separate waist and leg sizes. But that's a separate issue. It actually exemplifies the problem here, but that first requires us to think about adult women as adult conscious intelligent human people and not as abstract instinct-driven chimpanzee-like entities. So let's not go there. The overarching problem as I see it is that there are no women's pants that are just normal pants. There's always something funky about them. Remember, I'm not just talking about knockaround faded blue jeans. Pants are worn for a variety of reasons. Go to any urban downtown area and look at the men who look like they're on their way to work. Several of them will probably be wearing high-end selvedge denim or twill chinos. The lower leg will be straight and slim, landing more or less at the correct location at the top of the shoe. The thigh and seat will be fitted comfortably but not baggy. The material is sturdy and high-quality. There is no unnecessary wear applied to the pants, no feathering, no tears at the bottom edge, no holes at the knees. The pockets will be standard size, big enough for the wearer's oversize iPhone XQBERT 45 with 6 cameras in one pocket, and their tactical EDC card clip in the other. They will likely also have some kind of shoulder bag or backpack, revealing that they do in fact desire to carry items that don't fit in a standard pocket. Find me a pair of pants like that in a cut appropriate for a woman's hip/thigh/seat proportions, and I'll pay you a finders fee, because my wife would be very interested in purchasing them.

roenxi 3y ago

Less inflammatory but more technically correct - Woman's Pockets Reveal That Women Do Not Value Putting Things In Their Pockets. It stretches credulity, given the control women stereotypically have over clothing decisions, that large-pocketed clothes would not be an option if there was demand. Evidence suggests that any demand is a vocal minority.

arghwhat 3y ago
This is not accurate. Choice only reflects preference when sufficient choices are available (in this case, having common options with large pockets), and that making a selection based on preference in that area does not require significant downgrades on other areas (having a cargo pants option is not sufficient if the user is looking for skinny jeans with larger pockets).
- Jensson 3y ago
  You are assuming that you know better than the experts who design and decide what clothes to sell. Those experts are sometimes wrong, yes, but not that often, you need really good arguments to convince us that you know better than them.
  - arghwhat 3y ago
    If everyone needs jeans, and everyone makes jeans with small pockets, everyone will buy jeans with small pockets and make the analytics show that the market is satisfied and profit targets are met. These "experts" only maximize for their own preferred design and target profits. The fact that womens pockets are ridiculously small has become a meme is a good indication that they are wrong and do not care. Ask any seamstress and they will agree.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > The fact that womens pockets are ridiculously small has become a meme is a good indication that they are wrong and do not care. This isn't true, it can be a meme anyway if women prefer the looks of small pockets they wont even consider the larger pocketed one, and we end up in the current situation. It isn't hard to find clothes with larger pockets, it is hard to find clothes women like with larger pockets.

formerly_proven 3y ago

One word: Revealed preference

jezzamon 3y ago

Looking at the comments here, fairly clear to see hacker news' gender imbalance / biases...

Jensson 3y ago
We trust the experts instead of random anecdotes. In this case the experts thinks that women prefer clothes without noticeable pockets, so that is what they sell. Can you explain why you think the experts are wrong and your hunch is right?
- hef19898 3y ago
  Because, as others pointed out, those "experts" don't seem to listen to women. Excibit A: Too small pockets on women's jeans are a meme now.
  - Jensson 3y ago
    It being a meme doesn't mean that women doesn't prefer the looks of small pockets. What they want is to have the looks of small pockets but still have large pockets, that is really hard to satisfy.
    - formerly_proven 3y ago
      According to the memes nobody has been buying even a single GPU for years, as they are all far too large, power hungry and expensive.
  - Veen 3y ago
    The experts are women. Maybe you should listen to the women who run the fashion industry instead of assuming you know better.
- smegger001 3y ago
  Because clothing designers are famouslys self selected for prefering form over function.

nottorp 3y ago

"Heads up, you’re about to experience some scroll-driven animations. If you’d like to skip that, you can jump ahead to the final state." Oh thanks. It would have been even better if you hadn't done the scroll driven animations at all.

chalsprhebaodu 3y ago
Really? Clearly some people enjoy scroll driven animations as a stylistic choice and you’re given a warning and a chance to opt out and you still complain?
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  It's not clear that some people enjoy scroll driven animations. Why is it to you? Why not voice if you dislike something even if you can opt out with extra clicks?
- nottorp 3y ago
  Which people? Give me one pre existing quote of someone who claims to enjoy useless animations in their info and is not a designer. Edit: emphasis on pre existing thank you. Not replies to my comment after the fact :)
  - ipython 3y ago
    I enjoyed the animations. I’m not a designer.
  - festive-minsky 3y ago
    I like them..
  - dagw 3y ago
    While not always a fan, I though this particular example was well done.
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    I enjoyed the animations, but I didn't find them useless. You're correct that I don't enjoy useless animations, but this is not a useless animation.

RecycledEle 3y ago

> There are few things more frustrating than collecting your belongings only to realize that the pockets in your pants are too small to hold them. I'd like to report sexism.\s To say that women have few problems more substantial than their stuff not fitting in their pockets is incredibly sexist.\s As a guy, I'll throw the stuff in my laptop bag (that I carry daily without a laptop) or in a fanny pack if I am going to be more active. This is not a major source of frustration for me, even when I have to carry half-a-dozen medical gadgets with me due to my many conditions. Anyone who finds putting things in their pockets to be a major concern needs to get a real job. As for the complaint that womens clothing is more for fashion than practicality, they can do what I did when an early Galaxy Note phone did not fit in my shirt pocket: Buy a sewing machine. I still love my Singer 44s.

nerdponx 3y ago
So you're a man, presumably born as such, and with the stereotypical anatomy thereof. You also acknowledge that you have somewhat idiosyncratic preferences, and the "stuff" you have in mind doesn't fit in pockets anyway. And yet you have the audacity to tell other people what to do, based on your n=1 experience, with the implication that if they just did what you did they'd be happier. That's utter nonsense and defies logic.
- RecycledEle 3y ago
  LOL!

hackererror404 3y ago

Just make large pockets fashionably popular for women and women will have larger pockets... Don't think that this is rocket science or anything.

growingkittens 3y ago

According to this comment section: The lack of workable pockets comes down to women's morality. After all, doesn't the free market offer exactly what is demanded? The option must be there, women just don't choose it because they think it's ugly. Women are never socially punished for looking frumpy, obviously. Women are also responsible for the actions of the fashion industry.

empyrrhicist 3y ago
It's wild. This is a common theme though, the quality of HN discussion on average can be absolutely terrible when it comes to gender.
- Jensson 3y ago
  Yes, in a normal thread people wouldn't argue that a highly competitive market fails to sell products the consumer would like even though those products are easy to make. But when you start to talk about women all rationality goes out the window and now people suddenly believe the people who sell products are total idiots.
  - empyrrhicist 3y ago
    That's such a ridiculously oversimplified take on how the modern economy/clothing industry works it's almost childish. Markets aren't magic, and there are lots of reasons customers wouldn't get what they want. Not to mention, my default stance is to simply believe people when they tell me what they want - you should try it sometime. With that in mind, even if you want to hold on to your weird market utopia fantasy, it certainly seems like there must be a sizeable minority of people who want (and, anecdotally, who DO go out of their way to find when possible) pants with functional pockets. "That's what the market sells so it's what you must want" is such a wild take.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      > my default stance is to simply believe people when they tell me what they want That is even more childish though, we know for sure that people don't really know what they want. What is available is a much better predictor for what people want than what they say they want. Peoples opinions are a valuable input, but it isn't the most important. Expert decisions that considered peoples opinions among many other things are a much better signal.

anymouse123456 3y ago

"See that guy over there?" she says as she gestures toward a man wearing very short, very tight, cut-off jean shorts on the corner of Castro and Market street. "He would never clutter up his butt with a giant wallet." Me: "That's great for him, but I don't care how cluttered my butt is." The moment I learned that some women (at least one of them), are more interested in form than function when it comes to pants pockets.

aaron695 3y ago

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ipsin 3y ago

It's sad how quickly "JS demonstration with non-male viewpoint" gets buried on HN, with comments and downvotes.

deleted 3y ago
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bell-cot 3y ago

A couple points that I don't see being made here: - In many instances, a woman who actually prioritizes quantity and quality of pockets has the easy option of purchasing "Men's" clothing. - Women are generally (by male standards) hyperaware of the "look" of other women, and often are systematically cruel toward a woman whose "look" doesn't meet their approval. If you're a woman, and really want good pockets...you may very reasonably conclude that it would not be worth the social costs imposed by other women.

nerdponx 3y ago

The amount of men here explaining to women why their lack of good choices is their own fault is depressing. I suppose I needed a reminder that just because it's the 2020s doesn't mean people have advanced beyond the arrogance of ignorance.

bell-cot 3y ago
True, to some degree. OTOH - neither "men" nor "women" are tightly coordinated and cohesive teams, and not every imperfection in the world is the fault of men. I figured out fairly young that any disagreements or drama between my female relatives were their business, not mine, and it was generally wisest to make myself scarce for the duration.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
That is a false characterization of the discussion. The specific claim is the low supply or even total lack of women’s clothing with bigger pockets is a reflection of the desires of the market as a whole, not specifically about pocket size, but the entire garment being purchased. This claim is because making and selling women’s clothing with bigger pockets is trivial, so the deduction is that the sellers have experienced insufficient demand if they are not offering it. The other option is sellers have not picked up on an opportunity to sell a more competitive product, which might be true if buying tastes have changed.
- almatabata 3y ago
  I think you can add another criteria that certain commenters here have revealed. They usually also say that they do not want to scour the web for a pair of pants that has larger pockets (see example comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38000006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38000006). This means you also have to add convenience to the list of criteria. I would classify small startups as more inconvenient which might in part explain why they struggle to fill this niche.
  - nerdponx 3y ago
    It's worth making clear that "convenience" in this case is really more like "not expending relatively large amounts of time, energy, and money". Characterizing that as "convenience" seems demeaning to me, unless we also consider it a convenience that I don't need to fetch my water from a well or light a fire to take a warm bath.

jezzamon 3y ago

Unrelated to the general direction the comments are taking here, it's apparently not toooo hard to modify pants to extend their pockets. You'll find tonnes of videos by women on how to do that. So if there are pants that are otherwise good but have small pockets, that is an option.

nzach 3y ago

What if this is a problem with usability, and have nothing to with personal preferences? I imagine that for a tight pair of jeans would be pretty annoying put and carry things in pockets. You may even need both hands to put something in your pocket if your pants are tight enough. This means that even if you had large pockets in tight jeans you would probably not use them anyways. And looking at the data provided this seems to be a probable exaplanation, as skinny jeans generally have a smaller pocket compared to their straight counterparts.